Trotsky, Zenoviav, Sverdlov, Radok, Litinov and many of the other Bolsheviks were internationalists. A good number were Jews. If they were alive today we would call them globalists.
Internationalism is actually the opposite of globalism. The latter is corporate governance by imperial powers. Internationalism respects the rights of people to find and express their own sovereignty, in solidarity under generally a socialist direction. We see that with Cuba, Nicaragua, , Bolivia, and Venezuela currently. One famous application is this is Venezuela providing Cuba with oil and Cuba providing Venezuela with medical personnel.
Jon Olsen, unless I am seriously misunderstanding his intent, is quite the fascist. Nice of him to let the discerning reader (assuming my interpretation is correct) know this, by his statement: "Internationalism respects the rights of people to find and express their own sovereignty, in solidarity under generally a socialist direction." Respects the rights of people? Give me a break.
That's the correct answer because I can call myself a Jew if I want to steal land. It's ridiculous, redonkulous, preposterous, absurd, outrageous, jive malarkey.
I think what you're saying might not be true. (Even though I love your string of words)
First off how many groups of people have stolen land from other groups of people?
Is being Jewish a religion, a culture, a heritage...?
Is a Zionist a Jew across the board? Or are Jewish people being used as pawns throughout history with such a deep traumatic wound at this point (not to say this is not true of other groups of people) by others who have a larger agenda.
Are we taught to vilify people by those who push us around the game board? So we have somewhere to place our rage, anger, frustration, sorrow, grief.....
Do we become a convenient easily distracted, easily led lynch mob, by those with larger plans?
Jus' seein' this -- so much said so bee-u-tifully in such a small space! YES we know who we are--"Jews are an ethnic group, a religion, a nation, meaning one people. It doesn’t matter where in the world they immigrated to..." EXACTLY!
Folks today do NOT understand because it's not just "one thing"--not just a culture, not just a faith, not just a nation. ALL of those an' more--we are a PEOPLE. That pisses folks off b/c they like ta pigeon hole us--an try mercilessly to do so or equivocate--sayin' that Ashkenazi's ain't Jews (no we ain't Khazarian) or sayin' that we aren't a race (per Whoopie of the lifted "chewish" name) but frankly we are a semiotic puzzle--we defy single signifiers an' yet we DO know who we are--an' we near-always know a lansman.
Many who are raised without any Jewish identity do not know this part've themselves--or they distrust it or even disown it. I have fambly (cousins) raised that'away an' they now feel they missed out--now as middled aged parents, some who never told their kids their "dark secret." So strange ta me! So here we find ourselves facin' (once more) erasure... surrounded by hate. So thank ya Leslie fer speakin' up fer so many've us so eloquently!
One last thought---I'll venture ta say that not all secular Jews are "JINOs" tho'-- many greatly value our culture, everlastin' education ("qvestion, qvestion, qvestion..."), our values, humor, an' remain very moral individuals who find their place the world with strong roots in Judaism whether they make it ta temple or not. (An' even the most secular oft-manage ta find their way ta say kaddish an' attend shiva when a "fambly" member dies--from this I know...well).
Pains me greatly when folks who were not raised Jewish--misunderstand or "think" they know who "we" are. Yes we were "chosen" to follow the 10 commandments (there are like 138 actually) an' share this knowledge an' set good examples in our lives so as ta be mensches--fer this reason (as ya know), every time a Jew behaves badly it's a "shame to the race." (eg Epstein is a shame ta the race!). Folks misunderstand, misread, and hate. They don't even understand "chosen"--they only point fingers an' now--the danged blood oath is back. Oy an' bless us all while most've the world extends their curses an' accusations...
Israeli historian, Schlomo Sands, has some thoughts on that. He wrote a book The Invention of the Jewish People. I never got around to reading his book, but I did watch a talk he gave on it and it was very interesting and worth the time.
It looks like he's done lots of talks, but I think this was the one I listened to years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A5BGrIX86g And the reviews of his book on Amazon give you a good sense of what he talks about.
Hello No One Knows: I have no belief in Satan (nor God) but would equate the public's *interpretation* of the first commandment in similar relationship.
Interpreting the 10 commandments as rational suggestion, rather than Stricture of deity, would suggest that the individual should adopt these precepts as guides to one's rational ethic, rather than leaving it to some "other" persona. Jus' sayin'
I switched it off the minute he started talking about Hamas taking Israel by surprise. What a load of bollocks 🙄 The MOSSAD not only created Hamas, they control them.
It needs to be verified, like any other important claim. And by verified, I don't mean some 16-hour Rumble video that presents a tissue of unsubstantiated claims and half-truths narrated by a guy with a cheesy British accent and scored with cheesy music.
Let's put it this way: If adequate verification of important claims on social media were my only source of water, I would probably die of thirst (perhaps strung along for a while as I crawl along by amazing encounters with drops here and there).
'Semites, Semitic peoples or Semitic cultures is an obsolete term for an ethnic, cultural or racial group. The terminology is now largely unused outside the grouping "Semitic languages" in linguistics.' Wikipedia
Thank you for the documentation, Celia. It is shocking and despicable how the far left shamelessly romanticizes Mao, Lenin, and other Communist leaders.
In my Croatian Weekly interview (https://margaretannaalice.substack.com/p/my-croatian-weekly-hrvatski-tjednik), I wrote a bit about how BLM Cofounder Patrisse Cullors describes herself and her cofounder Alicia Garza as “trained Marxists” and linked to a video of her gushing over Mao’s ”Little Red Book”:
I think you’d appreciate this article by David Josef Volodzko, who was fired by The Seattle Times for daring to suggest that Lenin was more evil than Hitler “because Hitler only targeted people he personally believed were harmful to society whereas Lenin targeted even those he himself didn’t believe were harmful in any way” and pointing out that Communism is responsible for far more deaths:
While the "far Left" may go further in adoration of Communist leaders, the mainstream Left has been winking at them for decades, whitewashing them in a variety of subtle ways (e.g., elevating Hitler to the Worst Monster of All History while hardly ever criticizing -- much less condemning -- Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc.)
Yes indeed , a politician in the US has a better political chance to be a US Congressmen Or president if he/she is a socialist community organizer than a real state billionaire. Ain’t that some Shiite?!?!?!
Norman Gary Finkelstein is the first Zionist historian to admit that the Zionist Congress decided to come to Palestine determined to disappear the Palestinians by any means necessary. For that the Zionists have labeled him a “self hating Jew” .
I don’t think he is a “self hating Jew” either . Historians are supposed to give us unadulterated historical facts regardless of political correctness. So we agree on the history of Zionism but part company on Parasitism , Trotskyism, Communism, Bidenism Et al.
Maybe you are looking for someone to fit all the boxes? And maybe that is not possible?There are so many divisive pieces and so much concocted history and so much suppressed history, it's a wiggly wobbly world.
The idea of a 'self hating Jew' is just part of the narrative that being Jewish and not supportive of Israel makes one self hating. It's a fallacy. A way to cause division.
I don't know what Jewish means at this point. Is it a religion, a race (which is a fictionalized story itself?)
There are many speaking to the larger picture. Who is doing the orchestrating and why. Not the chess pieces themselves, but the players.
If Marx and Engels can be self-hating Jews (and they were), then so can Trotsky. One would have to research what he wrote about "the Jews". On Marx & Engels, Paul Kengor has the receipts, which might be in this interview (but certainly is in his book "The Devil and Karl Marx")
No he is not - many Jews oppose Zionism - but the Zionist controlled media ignores them or labels them “self hating Jews” - interestingly “self hating Jews” are “antisemites” ain’t that some Shiite? 😀😀😀
Just Arabs, the vast majority Muslim, tiny minority Christian. Joan Peters' book From Time Immemorial goes into how the land wasn't populated hardly at all through the 19th century into the 20th, and as Jews started moving in (in the decades prior to 1948), Muslim nations basically moved Muslims there to edge out the Jews. She also points out that although there was much anti-Israel propaganda after 1948, there was no mention of "Palestinians" for some two decades until 1967. A curious omission if its importance is as they claim since.
As documented by Norman Finkelstein, the Zionists came to Palestine determined to DISAPPEAR the Palestinians by any means necessary. In 1922 , The WW1 Allies had no problem identifying the Palestinians.
HUH ? In 1922 the WW1 Allies France, the UK , Netherlands, recognized Palestine as occupying the land From The Mediterranean Sea to the River Jordan . So your claim is merit less.
Interestingly , Golda Meir, Israel’s former PM ADMITTED that Palestine extended from the Mediterranean Sea to the River Jordan and that she carried a Palestinian Passport until 1948.
Well, actually there were no European Jews in Palestine before 1967. But there were millions of Palestinian Jews, Christians and Muslims. Kindly educate yourself. Highly recommend the book “The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine” by Ilan Pape, who is an Israeli Historian.
This actually confirms I am right. I just got my year wrong. The Balfour Declaration was written in 1917 and apparently implemented immediately. 1948 was when Israel was given birth by the West. 1967 was the war.
I’m sorry that you’ve been fed a bunch of lies. Thats whats common with all European settlers and their progeny. Not just in Israel, but everywhere Europeans have colonized. Oh this was always our land, the indigenous we wiped off were animals. Look how much prosperity we have brought here. “A land without a ppl for a ppl without a land,” - the slogan from hell for the indigenous. Israel is a settler colonial racist state. If not, why are thousands of Israelis fleeing back to where they came from these days? While Gazans are trapped in a concentration camp and being bombed into extinction. Lets not forget the West Bank. There is no Hamas there - why have -200 Palestinians been murdered there since Oct. 7th? Zionism is not just racism, it is barbaric racism that has nothing to do with Judaism.
His past was Jewish, but today he sees Israel as one of the most racist societies in the western world. Historian Shlomo Sand explains why he doesn’t want to be Jewish anymore
He wrote a book, The Invention of the Jewish People, which I haven't read, but I did watch a talk he gave on his book, which was very interesting.
Thank you for confirming European colonization of Palestine began well before most ppl know. Israel is a settler colonial state. And the only way it survives is if it commits the same crimes that were committed on Jews by Hitler, which it is currently committing. Israel has become a Judeo-Nazi state...not my words, an Israeli Philosophers:
Nailed it . Which makes one wonder WHY would Hamas decide to attack Israel at this point in Time when barely a month ago the country was facing a civil war - Bb and the Likudnucks needed a FALSE FLAG to unite the Israelites. They used Hamas and Hezbollah for their scheme.
I have known Hezbollah to be referred to as the "Immaculate" resistance. There is little or no evidence that they have ever charged about murdering, raping and beheading civilians as the Captagon-drenched al Q/ISIL proxies and factions have done. They are known for discipline.
Indeed. During the 1930s Ben Gurion discussed STEALING Southern Lebanon including the Litani River and that’s the reason Hezbollah was created . Of course , the Zionists accuse them of being “ terrorists”.
Interesting that the only people in the region who want to obliterate the Levant are the Zionists and their NATO lackeys. Those surrounding Israel have displayed immense restraint for decades. Syria has been bombed repeatedly in the 'hopes' that they will retaliate so that the Z'ists can destroy them.
I don't agree that your rationale for removing the post, justifies it at all. Let people think and decide for themselves. You could warn them. The following is the comment that I tried to make on that thread:
'...Everybody who doesn't "think" what Israel is doing in Gaza right now is genocide, and/or those who can't decide whether Israel is living up to international humanitarian law or committing genocide, is a moron...'. I couldn't have said it better myself. I'd bet people wouldn't be riding the fence or claiming the mass-murder in Gaza by Israel allegedly "isn't" genocide, if they were in or close to Gaza right now.
"genocide" isn't the only war crime out there. There are plenty of slaughters, massacres, etc. that do not rise to the level of "genocide" even if they kill thousands.
So, what are you saying, that mass-murdering 10,000 civilians, half of them children, and two thirds of them women and children, in only one month, supposedly isn't genocide?! What?!
Particularly since the Israeli government and military are working towards massacring and ethnically-cleansing many thousands more of them right now, and driving those who live through it, out completely. You apologists for madness are insane and still "living" in the "blue pill" matrix control grid. Come out of it, and be part of those who are set free by truth!
First of all, there are no "Palestinians" (a propaganda term invented by the PLO in the 1960s). They are simply Muslims who happen to be there. So the people Israel would be genociding there constitute all together 1.7 billion, and even if they tried to kill all the "Palestinians" -- approximately 2 million -- it would be only ~0.3% of the total. Of course, Hitler (according to the Western Mainstream Narrative) murdered not the totality of Jews but 6 million, yet they call it genocide -- but according to that narrative, he intended to eliminate the totality but became distracted by most of the West pummeling him with bombs until he stopped.
Aside from that, your insistence that it is genocide implies there are no war crimes of mass killing short of it, which is simply false. Also, Israel is pulling its punches, and could have annihilated 2 million "Palestinians" probably in one week's time (or less), if it wanted to.
Alright then, how about this - if the most advanced military on the planet killed 10,000 of your people in less than a month, what would you call it? Just mass murder, perhaps? That same army also cut off the water supply, food, power, fuel, medical supplies to your people AND keeps bombing your women and children. What would call it then? If you still don’t call it genocide, then clearly you don’t see Arabs as humans.
Excellent "try", but I believe that such people cannot be reasoned with. It's fruitless. They know what "we" believe, and NONE OF IT gets through to them because their lord and master, Satan, has made sure they can't hear or see truth, and/or that they have no interest in or concern about truth. One cannot reason with Satan, thus one cannot reason with his slaves anymore than he.
"It is written, thus says the Lord [God the Father through Jesus the Christ, the Word(s) of God and the Maker / Creator of all things except evil]...":
"...Get... behind (Jesus the Christ), Satan[ist(s)]..."! "...You are of your (lord and master) the devil, and the lies of your (lord and master, Satan) you... do (perpetrate)..."! "...Repent, for the kingdom of (God and of) heaven is (very near) at hand..."! [Matthew 16:23, John 8:44 and Matthew 4:17; clarification(s), emphasis and/or paraphrasing provided by me.]
Nov 8, 2023·edited Nov 8, 2023Liked by Celia Farber
I listened to the entire talk and found it extremely well-reasoned and insightful. The big problem now is that people are letting their emotions overtake their thinking. (This is how "Israel has the right to defend itself" effectively turns into "Israel has the right to commit indiscriminate murder.") Norman is the perfect antidote.
I didn't find it helpful to bring in the historical context of dead Communists. Norman provided the context for the current crisis. That's what's important, for me.
Yes, the end was especially moving/convincing re: genocidal plan, international humanitarian law and proportionality and moral insanity, the amount of children Israel has killed vs. the amount killed in Ukraine . . .
I watched the whole interview and found it interesting and learned some details of what is going on. I think Finkelstein is an important voice now wo highlights the humanity of Gaza's and explains some historical details. Your highlighted pieces from Marx & Trotsky are terrible but I don't think it reflects Norms values. He made some important points.
With fanatical ideologues like Finkelstein, finding the few nuggets of useful truth in his tissue of distortions & disinformation would be like picking out the raisins in my Aunt Ruth's Christmas fruitcakes.
Your perception of Norman Finkelstein himself, let alone his scrupulous and near-universally respected, work agree with him or not, seems so misconceived to me, as to be pernicious (and, by the way, while meaning no disrespect to your grandmother, raisins aren't usually an ingredient of fruitcake).
Luckily, when it comes to Palestinian issues they are confirmed by other sources. Zionist Historian Benny Morris . BRAGS about the Palestinian Genocide. But when Norman Finkelstein mentions it
Sure there are a few hotheaded Jews who do that, but that doesn't mean there's a genocidal intention by Israel. My problem with Jews and their culture is much subtler and more complex than just accusing them bluntly of killing people.
It should also be noted that the United States supported Pol Pot (who died in April 1998) and the Khmer Rouge for several years after they were ousted from power by the Vietnamese in 1979. This support began under Jimmy Carter and his National Security Adviser, Zbigniew Brzezinski, and continued under Ronald Reagan.
Nixon/Kissinger did not end the US war against China, using Vietnam as a multiple-lives shield; they extended it for years beyond its end, as Johnson had, by rescinded JFK's executive order setting deadline for withdrawal of all US troops . . . and then . .
By nearly making indigenous people extinct, the original U.S. imperialists thought they had found a permanent way to mitigate the blowback which comes with building a society off of stealing from other civilizations; they assumed that if they simply shrunk these other civilizations enough, their extractive project would be able to continue indefinitely. This is what the advocates of “Greater Israel” within Netanyahu’s camp think will happen if they expand the Zionist state in the model of Manifest Destiny, and destroy Palestine to the same extent that the Americans and Canadians have destroyed the First Nations. History doesn’t let its villains escape consequences, though; at least not on a macro level, or on a long timeline.
Now that the U.S. empire has reached its unavoidable moment of decline, it’s not like the empire can simply retreat from its global operations without a cost, and continue its internal extractive efforts like nothing has happened. The economic effects of the empire’s global decline are vastly growing the proportion of the internal U.S. population that has revolutionary potential; this means that the surviving indigenous people are in the process of gaining enough allies to be able to defeat the empire, in partnership with all the other elements of modern America which share an interest in that goal.
This would be the far Left position: America is not merely a Body Politic that may be being subverted by a malignant cancer over the past few decades; America is intrinsically evil from the very beginning and all through its career. That's a bridge too far and may be dismissed as gnostic and irrational.
Most of the extinction of the North American Amerindians was accomplished before the 1608 founding of Jamestown, by then, 90% or more were victims of European diseases that were brought by the Spanish 100 years prior. Not that I am negating the intention of Dutch and British colonial policies, or later US national policy. The addition of many millions of Amerindian peoples from south of the US border over the last 50 years should speed things along nicely. And as for the current decline of empire, did it fall, or was it pushed? It has been more than 100 years since the nation's banking system was taken over by private interests, for the 3rd time since the founding era. And a bit over 50 since it was decoupled from gold.
I assume I am older than you and have read more books and papers than yourself. I almost never use fact checker sites, many of them are known to be false. Source material is generally better. Of course, one can be guilty of only reading from one worldview. Good research requires you to read as many sources that disagree with your premise, as those that agree.
Making it fit your narrative, no? I know the Americas, and the Spanish and French and other EuroTrashLandians and then the inbred Brits, et al. Sure, America was a great joint before the decoupling from gold? Banking? Christ!
Wars, that's the warped AmeriKKKan empire. We're here and now, so, who's going to write that history? A third of the world is under dirty U$A-IF sanctions.
The people south of the fake US border coming back here, or coming for a first time? Gotcha. Time for the evil seed of these One, Five and 15 percenters to go the way of the dodo.
Oh, golly, those Maoists, and Soviets! Shit: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years: Between 1880 to 1920, British colonial policies in India claimed more lives than all famines in the Soviet Union, Maoist China and North Korea combined.
+--+
A list of wars (italic) and of military combat that for some reason isn’t called a war (non-italic) that does not attempt to include every war and combat against Native Americans:
you have an interestingly amalgamated name. Hispanic biblical first name, Dutch Jewish surname. Perhaps your ancestors knew Christoforo Columbo, a Spanish crypto-Jew that returned to the Americas in 1493 with a flotilla of Spanish Jews that were expelled from Spain, and founded the plantations in the Caribbean.
"Making it fit your narrative, no?" No, but perhaps you are trying to make it fit yours. I merely pointed out the Amerindians were not all killed by US policy. I only referenced the deaths before the northern Europeans started arriving. The US wasn't a political entity until 1776, 168 years after my first European ancestor arrived, an indentured servant at Jamestown in 1608. He managed to survive the starving time and the Indian attacks, and decided to stay when the resupply ship arrived. And I am 3% Cherokee, so not all my ancestors were invaders. Most of them were escaping religious persecution in Europe, and hundreds of my European ancestors had been imprisoned, fined, or sent into exile for spiritual non-conformity. The churchmen regularly killed people for their 'spiritual crimes', they burned men at the stake for translating the Bible. The Swiss nailed their body parts to the city gates, or went to the river and drowned them during baptisms. The Germans hung a pair in iron cages above the cathedral door until their skeletons disintegrated and the bones fell out. The cages are still there. The churchmen burned alive more than 50k women for the crimes of being herbalists and midwives; the 'witches'. They had actual reasons for leaving, and they escaped to a continent that had lost most of its earlier population. You might try to separate your antipathy for the system from ordinary people who have never been in positions of policy making authority, most of which they do not agree with. I have some Quaker ancestors that petitioned the NC colonial legislature to end slavery, in the 17th century, 200 years before the Civil War. You weren't alive then, neither was I.
the indigenous did not keep large numbers of livestock, so there was less zoonosis, and they had smaller populations that generally avoided some other indigenous peoples. The notable exception would be syphilis. The first outbreak in Europe arrived with Columbo's return, and it spread into military troops. The military groups are often to blame for new diseases crossing borders.
I have seen no evidence that Europeans came to North America determined to disappear the indigenous populations. In the Dred Scott decision Justice McLean admitted that our Constitution did not discriminate and did not authorize slavery. Nothing prevents Afro-American, women, Indians or Hispanics from becoming President or a majority. So we differ in that respect from the Zionists.
That selection is ironically apropos, given that sources of spices were sought because the Europeans believed the felicitous aromas would prevent illnesses.
And here we are in the age of covid, and irrational belief in western medicine, whose purveyors care more about money than health.
yes, the encounter via the Crusades w/spices ( and later w/e.g., edible nightshades, coffee, chocolate, and maize ) did in many ways bring benefits to depleted Europe: however I cited the book for Contumacious, who will find in its first two chapters the evidence C. speaks of not having seen
IMHO, Finkelstein's "communist" identification probably comes from his having spent the past several years in intense study of Rosa Luxemburg's life and career, and its resonance with his family history. On the other hand, His many years ofstudy/commitment to understanding/describing the Palestinian nakba and the consequent cycle of repression and resistance goes much deeper and carries much more authority. Dont throw the baby out with the bathwater, in other words.
Thanks for the quotes Celia, important. I just want people to understand the land problem in its various forms and to work for solutions. Balfour Declaration supported a Jewish homeland not necessarily the establishment of a Jewish state. Anyway, here are views of some of the early Zionist leaders on land: https://alannahartzok.substack.com/p/zionism-and-land
Late in the 1930s the UK reminded Menachem Begin and the Zionists Terrorist Gangs like Irgun and Haganah that all Balfour required was a small Jewish Ghetto . But then the UK became the target and the Zionis Gangs attacked the Brits HQ at the King David Hotel . Subsequently the Brits left the ME.
"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." - Israeli prime Minister Menachem Begin in a speech to the Knesset [Israeli Parliament] quoted by Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts," New Statesman, June 25, 1982
"As far as I know, the early Zionists had a record of political terrorism almost unmatched in world history, and in 1974 Prime Minister Menachem Begin once even boasted to a television interviewer of having been the founding father of terrorism across the world."
Benjamin Freedman talks about how all of that came about in his 1961 Speech at the Willard Hotel (bitchute), which goes over the origins of WW1 and WW2. He said that the Zionists ruled over America like absolute monarchs (I think that's because they got the power to issue our national currency with the Federal Reserve Act in 1913) He also wrote a book Zionism The Hidden Tyranny http://whale.to/c/hiddenyyranny.pdf
No. I've listened to him a lot. But if he doesn't understand this history OR Covid OR that Chomsky is an Epstein payroll guy…etc etc. Forget all that: The vaccine genocide. Where was he?
YOWZERS! Thats not his wheelhouse. He has dedicated his entire adult life to the study of the Israel/Palestine “conflict.” And has paid a very heavy price for or it. No one, and especially those with more years behind them than in front, has a perfect record.
I didn't know that, but it really doesn't surprise me. The Left is clueless when it comes to biopolitics. The technocratic micromanagement of society is too deeply embedded in socialist thought to ever become an object of critique. By extension they can't fathom how psychopaths could ever gain control of public health institutions or effect a democide under cover of a "health emergency". As someone who originally comes from the Left, trying shake them out of the Covidian hypnosis it has been one of the frustrating things in my life.
Thanks for your post, Celia. Those quotes were chilling but illuminating. Seems that Lenin and Trotsky were even worse than i imagined.
Thanks Celia, good move. Norman can be more than grating, for sure, and he does go on, but those are the terms of switching channels, turning it off, when they "go there." The problem with almost all the "discourse" out there is that very few are, so to speak, getting under the hood, mentioning the "deeper politics" of things & the things that go on, as a matter of course. in deep states, banking, or, in fact, right in plain sight! They still speak as if the world actually operates according to some kind of "norms" &, I think, we should all know by now, that simply doesn't cut how things ACTUALLY work. I read the Israeli press & it's common knowledge that a lot of the people killed on October 7th must have been killed by the Israeli military but something so blatantly actual doesn't make a peep on this side of the drink. Thanks for the DeMeo reference too!
To dispense with a much-needed public dialogue whose urgency can't be overstated just because you were triggered by his quoting someone long dead whom you don't like is irrational, peevish and reactionary. Yet none of the quotes you posted from the book were from Trotsky. And what were the exact Trotsky quotes that Finkelstein cited? Did they advocate genocide? Or was he guilty just by association? In which case you're behaving like a 'Karen'.
Trotsky, Zenoviav, Sverdlov, Radok, Litinov and many of the other Bolsheviks were internationalists. A good number were Jews. If they were alive today we would call them globalists.
https://secularheretic.substack.com/p/christianity-and-the-state-of-israel
right.
Internationalism is actually the opposite of globalism. The latter is corporate governance by imperial powers. Internationalism respects the rights of people to find and express their own sovereignty, in solidarity under generally a socialist direction. We see that with Cuba, Nicaragua, , Bolivia, and Venezuela currently. One famous application is this is Venezuela providing Cuba with oil and Cuba providing Venezuela with medical personnel.
Murdering vast sums of people is their common denominator.
So, you are an apologist for such fascism. Nice of you to be so forthright about your confabulated thinking.
is your use of the word "nice" here, merely facetious, or do you mean it to carry a snide, and/or condescending connotation ?
Jon Olsen, unless I am seriously misunderstanding his intent, is quite the fascist. Nice of him to let the discerning reader (assuming my interpretation is correct) know this, by his statement: "Internationalism respects the rights of people to find and express their own sovereignty, in solidarity under generally a socialist direction." Respects the rights of people? Give me a break.
What exactly is a Jew?
I'm not sure.
A Jew nowadays is European. They are called AshkeNAZI jews, God's chosen ones.
I don't know, doesn't really answer the question.
That's the correct answer because I can call myself a Jew if I want to steal land. It's ridiculous, redonkulous, preposterous, absurd, outrageous, jive malarkey.
I think what you're saying might not be true. (Even though I love your string of words)
First off how many groups of people have stolen land from other groups of people?
Is being Jewish a religion, a culture, a heritage...?
Is a Zionist a Jew across the board? Or are Jewish people being used as pawns throughout history with such a deep traumatic wound at this point (not to say this is not true of other groups of people) by others who have a larger agenda.
Are we taught to vilify people by those who push us around the game board? So we have somewhere to place our rage, anger, frustration, sorrow, grief.....
Do we become a convenient easily distracted, easily led lynch mob, by those with larger plans?
Jews seem to know (even if they may be cagey about it to outsiders).
That's a massive generalization.
Show me a Jew who says "I don't really know what a Jew is".
ME. I just did. My father was Jewish, my mother Lutheran, then Catholic, then converted to Jewish to marry my father.
I have limited sense of Jewish identity as I did not grow up with my father, and he moved out when I was 3.
I can't see the thread. The question for me is, is it a religion, a race, a heritage, a culture. Different pieces for different people?
From what I understand Palestinians are descendants of Jewish people.
I think it needs to be teased apart and understood more deeply. (I apologize if I'm repeating myself)
this is interesting on the origin of jews .... not mainstream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGvHKg0vKVs
I love many people who are Jewish, people I know and people I don't. Love and appreciate.
Jus' seein' this -- so much said so bee-u-tifully in such a small space! YES we know who we are--"Jews are an ethnic group, a religion, a nation, meaning one people. It doesn’t matter where in the world they immigrated to..." EXACTLY!
Folks today do NOT understand because it's not just "one thing"--not just a culture, not just a faith, not just a nation. ALL of those an' more--we are a PEOPLE. That pisses folks off b/c they like ta pigeon hole us--an try mercilessly to do so or equivocate--sayin' that Ashkenazi's ain't Jews (no we ain't Khazarian) or sayin' that we aren't a race (per Whoopie of the lifted "chewish" name) but frankly we are a semiotic puzzle--we defy single signifiers an' yet we DO know who we are--an' we near-always know a lansman.
Many who are raised without any Jewish identity do not know this part've themselves--or they distrust it or even disown it. I have fambly (cousins) raised that'away an' they now feel they missed out--now as middled aged parents, some who never told their kids their "dark secret." So strange ta me! So here we find ourselves facin' (once more) erasure... surrounded by hate. So thank ya Leslie fer speakin' up fer so many've us so eloquently!
One last thought---I'll venture ta say that not all secular Jews are "JINOs" tho'-- many greatly value our culture, everlastin' education ("qvestion, qvestion, qvestion..."), our values, humor, an' remain very moral individuals who find their place the world with strong roots in Judaism whether they make it ta temple or not. (An' even the most secular oft-manage ta find their way ta say kaddish an' attend shiva when a "fambly" member dies--from this I know...well).
Pains me greatly when folks who were not raised Jewish--misunderstand or "think" they know who "we" are. Yes we were "chosen" to follow the 10 commandments (there are like 138 actually) an' share this knowledge an' set good examples in our lives so as ta be mensches--fer this reason (as ya know), every time a Jew behaves badly it's a "shame to the race." (eg Epstein is a shame ta the race!). Folks misunderstand, misread, and hate. They don't even understand "chosen"--they only point fingers an' now--the danged blood oath is back. Oy an' bless us all while most've the world extends their curses an' accusations...
Thanks
jesus christ is the litmus test ...
What does that mean?
these things go way back ... it is always same small group against the rest of humanity.
I'm sorry I can't track the whole thread here.
How can it always be the 'same small group'?
Israeli historian, Schlomo Sands, has some thoughts on that. He wrote a book The Invention of the Jewish People. I never got around to reading his book, but I did watch a talk he gave on it and it was very interesting and worth the time.
Thank you Sandra!
Would you have a link to the talk or remember where you found it?
It looks like he's done lots of talks, but I think this was the one I listened to years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A5BGrIX86g And the reviews of his book on Amazon give you a good sense of what he talks about.
His stance on Israel and being a jew (here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/10/shlomo-sand-i-wish-to-cease-considering-myself-a-jew) kind of reminds me of Israeli, Gilad Atzmon, who also spoke out against the racism in Israel (I think he moved away): https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4147243,00.html
Thank you Sandra, I'll hold onto this!
And now he is fully cancelled.
I don't live in the UK, but is he still performing?
I honestly don't know.
mongrel descendants of Judah... a look at the bible lineage shows some interesting stuff
Heh, heh... Erm... Chosen... ???
Where I come from we call them expletives deleted.
so much denial of the elephant in the room... when Sabbatai Zevi was a live 90% of the chosen became sabbateans... so shows natural inclination
yahweh=satan.... first commandment declared war on all mankind.... its monotheism
Hello No One Knows: I have no belief in Satan (nor God) but would equate the public's *interpretation* of the first commandment in similar relationship.
Interpreting the 10 commandments as rational suggestion, rather than Stricture of deity, would suggest that the individual should adopt these precepts as guides to one's rational ethic, rather than leaving it to some "other" persona. Jus' sayin'
we could say YAHWEH is the supreme universal psychopath to rule them all.... Trotsky,Marx Rabbi Schneerson types, etc model him
I switched it off the minute he started talking about Hamas taking Israel by surprise. What a load of bollocks 🙄 The MOSSAD not only created Hamas, they control them.
Yes, the MOSSAD !
“The Media is the most powerful entity on Earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent.”——Malcom X.
Great quote. So very true!
Recently another Afro-American guy , Donald J Trump , criticized the corrupt Mockingbird media.
And the "Jews" OWN most of the Collective Waste's media and entertainment.
This piece seems to be conveniently dropped and overlooked. It is rather important.
It needs to be verified, like any other important claim. And by verified, I don't mean some 16-hour Rumble video that presents a tissue of unsubstantiated claims and half-truths narrated by a guy with a cheesy British accent and scored with cheesy music.
Of course it needs to be verified.
Is there such a thing on rumble?!?! (I don't have access most of the time)
Thanks for flushing out the verification process. . .
Let's put it this way: If adequate verification of important claims on social media were my only source of water, I would probably die of thirst (perhaps strung along for a while as I crawl along by amazing encounters with drops here and there).
I was being sarcastic when I thanked you for flushing out the verification process.
It depends who you are listening to.
Who is this antisemite Celia dumbcunt" Farber
'Semites, Semitic peoples or Semitic cultures is an obsolete term for an ethnic, cultural or racial group. The terminology is now largely unused outside the grouping "Semitic languages" in linguistics.' Wikipedia
They’re all genocidal cnuts, so I wouldn’t be at all surprised
But only one side has the moral highroad in defending themselves.
And it's not the Red Sea Pedestrians.
Hamas is merely a human weapon in the genocide.
Thank you for the documentation, Celia. It is shocking and despicable how the far left shamelessly romanticizes Mao, Lenin, and other Communist leaders.
In my Croatian Weekly interview (https://margaretannaalice.substack.com/p/my-croatian-weekly-hrvatski-tjednik), I wrote a bit about how BLM Cofounder Patrisse Cullors describes herself and her cofounder Alicia Garza as “trained Marxists” and linked to a video of her gushing over Mao’s ”Little Red Book”:
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suN8QTMojEY&t=372s
I think you’d appreciate this article by David Josef Volodzko, who was fired by The Seattle Times for daring to suggest that Lenin was more evil than Hitler “because Hitler only targeted people he personally believed were harmful to society whereas Lenin targeted even those he himself didn’t believe were harmful in any way” and pointing out that Communism is responsible for far more deaths:
• https://www.thefp.com/p/seattle-times-writer-fired-over-hitler-lenin
I’ve been doing a letter exchange with David (https://margaretannaalice.substack.com/p/dissident-dialogues-margaret-anna) and have found him to be a nuanced thinker with deep knowledge across a wide range of disciplines, so I think you’ll find his perspective valuable.
While the "far Left" may go further in adoration of Communist leaders, the mainstream Left has been winking at them for decades, whitewashing them in a variety of subtle ways (e.g., elevating Hitler to the Worst Monster of All History while hardly ever criticizing -- much less condemning -- Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc.)
Yes indeed , a politician in the US has a better political chance to be a US Congressmen Or president if he/she is a socialist community organizer than a real state billionaire. Ain’t that some Shiite?!?!?!
Lovely to welcome you, NYC Mom, and happy to hear you're enjoying the interview!
Norman Gary Finkelstein is the first Zionist historian to admit that the Zionist Congress decided to come to Palestine determined to disappear the Palestinians by any means necessary. For that the Zionists have labeled him a “self hating Jew” .
I don't think he's a self-hating Jew. I think he's a Trotsky apologist.
I don’t think he is a “self hating Jew” either . Historians are supposed to give us unadulterated historical facts regardless of political correctness. So we agree on the history of Zionism but part company on Parasitism , Trotskyism, Communism, Bidenism Et al.
Maybe you are looking for someone to fit all the boxes? And maybe that is not possible?There are so many divisive pieces and so much concocted history and so much suppressed history, it's a wiggly wobbly world.
The idea of a 'self hating Jew' is just part of the narrative that being Jewish and not supportive of Israel makes one self hating. It's a fallacy. A way to cause division.
I don't know what Jewish means at this point. Is it a religion, a race (which is a fictionalized story itself?)
There are many speaking to the larger picture. Who is doing the orchestrating and why. Not the chess pieces themselves, but the players.
Zoom out. . .
If Marx and Engels can be self-hating Jews (and they were), then so can Trotsky. One would have to research what he wrote about "the Jews". On Marx & Engels, Paul Kengor has the receipts, which might be in this interview (but certainly is in his book "The Devil and Karl Marx")
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhttrp7GlhQ
Finkelstein is not a Zionist.
No he is not - many Jews oppose Zionism - but the Zionist controlled media ignores them or labels them “self hating Jews” - interestingly “self hating Jews” are “antisemites” ain’t that some Shiite? 😀😀😀
So, he is not a Zionist historian, as you wrote, but a historian of Zionism.
Right you are . I stand corrected. Thank you.
Good point! Ah the power of words.
No he is an anti-Zionist.
There were no "Palestinians" before approximately 1967.
what night we call the people who lived there, then?
Collateral Damage 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Just Arabs, the vast majority Muslim, tiny minority Christian. Joan Peters' book From Time Immemorial goes into how the land wasn't populated hardly at all through the 19th century into the 20th, and as Jews started moving in (in the decades prior to 1948), Muslim nations basically moved Muslims there to edge out the Jews. She also points out that although there was much anti-Israel propaganda after 1948, there was no mention of "Palestinians" for some two decades until 1967. A curious omission if its importance is as they claim since.
As documented by Norman Finkelstein, the Zionists came to Palestine determined to DISAPPEAR the Palestinians by any means necessary. In 1922 , The WW1 Allies had no problem identifying the Palestinians.
That would be impossible if "Palestinians" didn't exist until approximately 1967, since the Zionists arrived decades earlier.
HUH ? In 1922 the WW1 Allies France, the UK , Netherlands, recognized Palestine as occupying the land From The Mediterranean Sea to the River Jordan . So your claim is merit less.
Interestingly , Golda Meir, Israel’s former PM ADMITTED that Palestine extended from the Mediterranean Sea to the River Jordan and that she carried a Palestinian Passport until 1948.
Well, actually there were no European Jews in Palestine before 1967. But there were millions of Palestinian Jews, Christians and Muslims. Kindly educate yourself. Highly recommend the book “The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine” by Ilan Pape, who is an Israeli Historian.
This actually confirms I am right. I just got my year wrong. The Balfour Declaration was written in 1917 and apparently implemented immediately. 1948 was when Israel was given birth by the West. 1967 was the war.
I’m sorry that you’ve been fed a bunch of lies. Thats whats common with all European settlers and their progeny. Not just in Israel, but everywhere Europeans have colonized. Oh this was always our land, the indigenous we wiped off were animals. Look how much prosperity we have brought here. “A land without a ppl for a ppl without a land,” - the slogan from hell for the indigenous. Israel is a settler colonial racist state. If not, why are thousands of Israelis fleeing back to where they came from these days? While Gazans are trapped in a concentration camp and being bombed into extinction. Lets not forget the West Bank. There is no Hamas there - why have -200 Palestinians been murdered there since Oct. 7th? Zionism is not just racism, it is barbaric racism that has nothing to do with Judaism.
https://youtu.be/U2H-F0HVKDY?si=izP6ArVDJx2E1WVn
This Israeli historian agrees with you on Israel being one of the most racist states:
Shlomo Sand: ‘I wish to resign and cease considering myself a Jew’
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/10/shlomo-sand-i-wish-to-cease-considering-myself-a-jew
His past was Jewish, but today he sees Israel as one of the most racist societies in the western world. Historian Shlomo Sand explains why he doesn’t want to be Jewish anymore
He wrote a book, The Invention of the Jewish People, which I haven't read, but I did watch a talk he gave on his book, which was very interesting.
European Jews began arriving in the land in the late 19th century and continued thereafter.
Thank you for confirming European colonization of Palestine began well before most ppl know. Israel is a settler colonial state. And the only way it survives is if it commits the same crimes that were committed on Jews by Hitler, which it is currently committing. Israel has become a Judeo-Nazi state...not my words, an Israeli Philosophers:
https://youtu.be/NGGZBYEslPQ?si=aTRL_g3XntGmy1Xi
Nailed it . Which makes one wonder WHY would Hamas decide to attack Israel at this point in Time when barely a month ago the country was facing a civil war - Bb and the Likudnucks needed a FALSE FLAG to unite the Israelites. They used Hamas and Hezbollah for their scheme.
I have known Hezbollah to be referred to as the "Immaculate" resistance. There is little or no evidence that they have ever charged about murdering, raping and beheading civilians as the Captagon-drenched al Q/ISIL proxies and factions have done. They are known for discipline.
Indeed. During the 1930s Ben Gurion discussed STEALING Southern Lebanon including the Litani River and that’s the reason Hezbollah was created . Of course , the Zionists accuse them of being “ terrorists”.
Interesting that the only people in the region who want to obliterate the Levant are the Zionists and their NATO lackeys. Those surrounding Israel have displayed immense restraint for decades. Syria has been bombed repeatedly in the 'hopes' that they will retaliate so that the Z'ists can destroy them.
I don't agree that your rationale for removing the post, justifies it at all. Let people think and decide for themselves. You could warn them. The following is the comment that I tried to make on that thread:
'...Everybody who doesn't "think" what Israel is doing in Gaza right now is genocide, and/or those who can't decide whether Israel is living up to international humanitarian law or committing genocide, is a moron...'. I couldn't have said it better myself. I'd bet people wouldn't be riding the fence or claiming the mass-murder in Gaza by Israel allegedly "isn't" genocide, if they were in or close to Gaza right now.
I guess I found my inner censor.
If you can bear going back to it, and maybe try to pretend you never heard of him before, the last 12 minutes was rather moving.
Starts around 1:41:06
(It still played in the background on the page. I did not know you removed it.)
"genocide" isn't the only war crime out there. There are plenty of slaughters, massacres, etc. that do not rise to the level of "genocide" even if they kill thousands.
So, what are you saying, that mass-murdering 10,000 civilians, half of them children, and two thirds of them women and children, in only one month, supposedly isn't genocide?! What?!
Particularly since the Israeli government and military are working towards massacring and ethnically-cleansing many thousands more of them right now, and driving those who live through it, out completely. You apologists for madness are insane and still "living" in the "blue pill" matrix control grid. Come out of it, and be part of those who are set free by truth!
First of all, there are no "Palestinians" (a propaganda term invented by the PLO in the 1960s). They are simply Muslims who happen to be there. So the people Israel would be genociding there constitute all together 1.7 billion, and even if they tried to kill all the "Palestinians" -- approximately 2 million -- it would be only ~0.3% of the total. Of course, Hitler (according to the Western Mainstream Narrative) murdered not the totality of Jews but 6 million, yet they call it genocide -- but according to that narrative, he intended to eliminate the totality but became distracted by most of the West pummeling him with bombs until he stopped.
Aside from that, your insistence that it is genocide implies there are no war crimes of mass killing short of it, which is simply false. Also, Israel is pulling its punches, and could have annihilated 2 million "Palestinians" probably in one week's time (or less), if it wanted to.
Alright then, how about this - if the most advanced military on the planet killed 10,000 of your people in less than a month, what would you call it? Just mass murder, perhaps? That same army also cut off the water supply, food, power, fuel, medical supplies to your people AND keeps bombing your women and children. What would call it then? If you still don’t call it genocide, then clearly you don’t see Arabs as humans.
Excellent "try", but I believe that such people cannot be reasoned with. It's fruitless. They know what "we" believe, and NONE OF IT gets through to them because their lord and master, Satan, has made sure they can't hear or see truth, and/or that they have no interest in or concern about truth. One cannot reason with Satan, thus one cannot reason with his slaves anymore than he.
"It is written, thus says the Lord [God the Father through Jesus the Christ, the Word(s) of God and the Maker / Creator of all things except evil]...":
"...Get... behind (Jesus the Christ), Satan[ist(s)]..."! "...You are of your (lord and master) the devil, and the lies of your (lord and master, Satan) you... do (perpetrate)..."! "...Repent, for the kingdom of (God and of) heaven is (very near) at hand..."! [Matthew 16:23, John 8:44 and Matthew 4:17; clarification(s), emphasis and/or paraphrasing provided by me.]
Ahhhhh, semantics- reminds me of someone who once said “I didn’t have sex with that woman, Ms Lewinsky “ 😀😀😀😀😀
I listened to the entire talk and found it extremely well-reasoned and insightful. The big problem now is that people are letting their emotions overtake their thinking. (This is how "Israel has the right to defend itself" effectively turns into "Israel has the right to commit indiscriminate murder.") Norman is the perfect antidote.
I didn't find it helpful to bring in the historical context of dead Communists. Norman provided the context for the current crisis. That's what's important, for me.
I didn't get a chance to listen. But I do think we are all capable of discernment. The more we practice it the more able we are.
Yes, the end was especially moving/convincing re: genocidal plan, international humanitarian law and proportionality and moral insanity, the amount of children Israel has killed vs. the amount killed in Ukraine . . .
Starts around 1:41:06
I watched the whole interview and found it interesting and learned some details of what is going on. I think Finkelstein is an important voice now wo highlights the humanity of Gaza's and explains some historical details. Your highlighted pieces from Marx & Trotsky are terrible but I don't think it reflects Norms values. He made some important points.
So you're basically killing the messenger by not focusing on their arguments?
With fanatical ideologues like Finkelstein, finding the few nuggets of useful truth in his tissue of distortions & disinformation would be like picking out the raisins in my Aunt Ruth's Christmas fruitcakes.
Your perception of Norman Finkelstein himself, let alone his scrupulous and near-universally respected, work agree with him or not, seems so misconceived to me, as to be pernicious (and, by the way, while meaning no disrespect to your grandmother, raisins aren't usually an ingredient of fruitcake).
The Western Mainstream respects Fauci too.
Luckily, when it comes to Palestinian issues they are confirmed by other sources. Zionist Historian Benny Morris . BRAGS about the Palestinian Genocide. But when Norman Finkelstein mentions it
They go for his jugular.
Sure there are a few hotheaded Jews who do that, but that doesn't mean there's a genocidal intention by Israel. My problem with Jews and their culture is much subtler and more complex than just accusing them bluntly of killing people.
Great collection of intel in that book. Marx is very much appreciated amongst many "people of colour" here where I live. Will show them these quotes.
Pol Pot had monuments to Himself erected all over Cambodia.
Cairns of Skulls.
Unsophisticated & wasteful by today's standards.
All that killing, but no organ harvest.
Didn't the US support Pol Pot? I think I read in one of William Blum's books that the US backed Pol Pot at the UN or something like that. Here:
https://williamblum.org/aer/read/67
It should also be noted that the United States supported Pol Pot (who died in April 1998) and the Khmer Rouge for several years after they were ousted from power by the Vietnamese in 1979. This support began under Jimmy Carter and his National Security Adviser, Zbigniew Brzezinski, and continued under Ronald Reagan.
"Four Dead in Ohio" were protesting the bombing of Khymer Rouge by Nixon. More hilarity from nincompoops. Written by Neil Young. Talented nincompoop.
Nixon. The guy who got us out of Vietnam. Ugly. But out.
Funny how even recent history is rewritten, reshaped, spun or just lied about. But look who's doing the rewrite.
Nixon/Kissinger did not end the US war against China, using Vietnam as a multiple-lives shield; they extended it for years beyond its end, as Johnson had, by rescinded JFK's executive order setting deadline for withdrawal of all US troops . . . and then . .
By nearly making indigenous people extinct, the original U.S. imperialists thought they had found a permanent way to mitigate the blowback which comes with building a society off of stealing from other civilizations; they assumed that if they simply shrunk these other civilizations enough, their extractive project would be able to continue indefinitely. This is what the advocates of “Greater Israel” within Netanyahu’s camp think will happen if they expand the Zionist state in the model of Manifest Destiny, and destroy Palestine to the same extent that the Americans and Canadians have destroyed the First Nations. History doesn’t let its villains escape consequences, though; at least not on a macro level, or on a long timeline.
Now that the U.S. empire has reached its unavoidable moment of decline, it’s not like the empire can simply retreat from its global operations without a cost, and continue its internal extractive efforts like nothing has happened. The economic effects of the empire’s global decline are vastly growing the proportion of the internal U.S. population that has revolutionary potential; this means that the surviving indigenous people are in the process of gaining enough allies to be able to defeat the empire, in partnership with all the other elements of modern America which share an interest in that goal.
This would be the far Left position: America is not merely a Body Politic that may be being subverted by a malignant cancer over the past few decades; America is intrinsically evil from the very beginning and all through its career. That's a bridge too far and may be dismissed as gnostic and irrational.
Most of the extinction of the North American Amerindians was accomplished before the 1608 founding of Jamestown, by then, 90% or more were victims of European diseases that were brought by the Spanish 100 years prior. Not that I am negating the intention of Dutch and British colonial policies, or later US national policy. The addition of many millions of Amerindian peoples from south of the US border over the last 50 years should speed things along nicely. And as for the current decline of empire, did it fall, or was it pushed? It has been more than 100 years since the nation's banking system was taken over by private interests, for the 3rd time since the founding era. And a bit over 50 since it was decoupled from gold.
Yes European diseases like...... bullets - remember Little Big Horn
1876, hundreds of years after millions died of smallpox and measles
How come the diseases brough by the Spanish did not kill Amerindians in Central and South America?
Because that theory is fallacious-
try reading
Yes, I suggest you read Dr. Cowan, or, Drs. Bailey, Dr. Kaufman, Stephan Lanka. Read their words, not "fact checker" websites.
I assume I am older than you and have read more books and papers than yourself. I almost never use fact checker sites, many of them are known to be false. Source material is generally better. Of course, one can be guilty of only reading from one worldview. Good research requires you to read as many sources that disagree with your premise, as those that agree.
they did, but that is not where the US was founded
Making it fit your narrative, no? I know the Americas, and the Spanish and French and other EuroTrashLandians and then the inbred Brits, et al. Sure, America was a great joint before the decoupling from gold? Banking? Christ!
Wars, that's the warped AmeriKKKan empire. We're here and now, so, who's going to write that history? A third of the world is under dirty U$A-IF sanctions.
The people south of the fake US border coming back here, or coming for a first time? Gotcha. Time for the evil seed of these One, Five and 15 percenters to go the way of the dodo.
Oh, golly, those Maoists, and Soviets! Shit: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years: Between 1880 to 1920, British colonial policies in India claimed more lives than all famines in the Soviet Union, Maoist China and North Korea combined.
+--+
A list of wars (italic) and of military combat that for some reason isn’t called a war (non-italic) that does not attempt to include every war and combat against Native Americans:
1774-1883 Shawnee, Delaware
1776 Cherokee
1777-1781 Iroquois Confederacy (Haudenosaunee)
1780-1794 Chickamauga
1790-1795 Miami Confederacy
1792-1793 Muskogee (Creek)
1798-1801 France
1801-1805 Tripoli
1806 Mexico
1806-1810 Spanish, French privateers
1810 Spanish West Florida
1810-1813 Shawnee Confederacy
1812 Spanish Florida
1812-1815 Canada (Great Britain)
1812-1815 Dakota Sioux
1812-1815 Iroquois Confederacy (Haudenosaunee)
1813 Spanish West Florida
1813-1814 Marquesas Islands
1813-1814 Muskogee (Creek) Confederacy
1814 Spanish Florida
1814-1825 Pirates
1815 Algiers
1815 Tripoli
1816 Spanish Florida
1817 Spanish Florida
1817-1819 Seminole
1818 Oregon (Russia, Spain)
1820-1861 African Slave Trade Patrol
1822-1825 Cuba (Spain
1824 Puerto Rico (Spain)
1827 Greece
1831-1832 Falkland Islands
1832 Sauk
1832 Sumatra
1833 Argentina
1835-1836 Peru
1835-1842 Seminole
1836 Mexico
1836-1837 Muskogee (Creek)
1838-1839 Sumatra
1840 Fiji Islands
1841 Samoa
1841 Tabiteuea
1842 Mexico
1843 China
1844 Mexico
1846-1848 Mexico
1847-1850 Cayuse
1849 Turkey
1850-1886 Apache
1851 Johanna Island
1851 Turkey
1852-1853 Argentina
1853-1854 Japan
1853-1854 Nicaragua
1853-1854 Ryukyu, Ogasawara islands
1854-1856 China
1855 Fiji Islands
1855 Uruguay
1855-1856 Rogue River Indigenous Peoples
1855-1856 Yakima, Walla Walla, Cayuse
1855-1858 Seminole
1856 Panama (Colombia)
1856-1857 Cheyenne
1857 Nicaragua
1858 Coeur d’Alene Alliance
1858 Fiji Islands
1858 Uruguay
1858-1859 Turkey
1859 China
1859 Mexico
1859 Paraguay
1860 Angola
1860 Colombia
1862 Sioux
1863-1864 Japan
1864 Cheyenne
1865 Panama (Colombia)
1866 China
1866 Mexico
1866-1868 Lakota Siouw, Northern Cheyenne, Northern Arapaho
1867 Formosa (Taiwan)
1867 Nicaragua
1867-1875 Comanche
1868 Colombia
1868 Japan
1868 Uruguay
1870 Hawaii
1871 Korea
1872-1873 Modoc
1873 Colombia (Panama)
1873-1896 Mexico
1874 Hawaii
1874-1875 Comanche, Apache, Arapaho, Cheyenne, Kiowa
1876-1877 Sioux
1877 Nez Perce
1878 Bannock (Banna’kwut)
1878-1879 Cheyenne
1879-1880 Utes
1882 Egypt
1885 Panama (Colombia)
1888 Haiti
1888 Korea
1888-1889 Samoa
1889 Hawaii
1890 Argentina
1890 Lakota Sioux
1891 Bering Straight
1891 Chile
1891 Haiti
1893 Hawaii
1894 Brazil
1894 Nicaragua
1894-1895 China
1894-1896 Korea
1895 Panama (Colombia)
1896 Nicaragua
1898 Cuba (Spain)
1898 Nicaragua
1898 Philippines (Spain)
1898 Puerto Rico (Spain)
1898-1899 China
1899 Nicaragua
1899 Samoa
1899-1913 Philippines
1900 China
1901-1902 Colombia
1903 Dominican Republic
1903 Honduras
1903 Syria
1903-1904 Abyssinia (Ethiopia)
1903-1914 Panama
1904 Dominican Republic
1904 Tangier
1904-1905 Korea
1906-1909 Cuba
1907 Honduras
1909-1910 Nicaragua
1911-1912 Honduras
1911-1914 China
1912 Cuba
1912 Turkey
1912-1933 Nicaragua
1914 Dominican Republic
1914 Haiti
1914-1919 Mexico
1915-1934 Haiti
1916-1924 Dominican Republic
1917-1918 World War I (Europe)
1917-1922 Cuba
1918-1920 Russia
1918-1921 Panama
1919 Dalmatia
1919 Turkey
1919-1920 Honduras
1925 Panama
1932 El Salvador
1941-1945 World War II (Europe, North Africa, Asia/Pacific)
1946 Trieste
1947-1949 Greece
1948-1949 Berlin, Germany
1950 Formosa (Taiwan)
1950-1953 Korea
1953-1954 Formosa (Taiwan)
1955-1975 Vietnam
1956 Egypt
1958 Lebanon
1962 Cuba
1962 Thailand
1962-1975 Laos
1964 Congo (Zaire)
1965 Dominican Republic
1965-1973 Cambodia
1967 Congo (Zaire)
1976 Korea
1978 Congo (Zaire)
1980 Iran
1981 El Salvador
1981 Libya
1981-1989 Nicaragua
1982-1983 Egypt
1982-1983 Lebanon
1983 Chad
1983 Grenada
1986 Bolivia
1986 Libya
1987-1988 Iran
1988 Panama
1989 Bolivia
1989 Colombia
1989 Libya
1989 Peru
1989 Philippines
1989-1990 Panama
1990 Saudi Arabia
1991 Congo (Zaire)
1991-1992 Kuwait
1991-1993 Iraq
1992-1994 Somalia
1993-1994 Macedonia
1993-1996 Haiti
1993-2005 Bosnia
1995 Serbia
1996 Liberia
1996 Rwanda
1997-2003 Iraq
1998 Afghanistan
1998 Sudan
1999-2000 Kosovo
1999-2000 Montenegro
1999-2000 Serbia
2000 Yemen
2000-2002 East Timor
2000-2016 Colombia
2001 – Afghanistan
2001- Pakistan
2001- Somalia
2002-2015 Philippines
2002- Yemen
2003-2011 Iraq
2004 Haiti
c2004- Kenya
2011 Democratic Republic of the Congo
2011-2017 Uganda
2011- Libya
c2012- Central African Republic
c2012- Mali
c2013-2016 South Sudan
c2013- Burkina Faso
c2013- Chad
c2013- Mauritania
c2013- Niger
c2013- Nigeria
2014 Democratic Republic of the Congo
2014- Iraq
2014- Syria
2015 Democratic Republic of the Congo
c2015- Cameroon
2016 Democratic Republic of the Congo
2017- Saudi Arabia
c2017 Tunisia
2019- Philippines
"...the decoupling from gold? Banking? Christ!..." Currency debauchment has preceded every known collapse of empire.
you have an interestingly amalgamated name. Hispanic biblical first name, Dutch Jewish surname. Perhaps your ancestors knew Christoforo Columbo, a Spanish crypto-Jew that returned to the Americas in 1493 with a flotilla of Spanish Jews that were expelled from Spain, and founded the plantations in the Caribbean.
"Making it fit your narrative, no?" No, but perhaps you are trying to make it fit yours. I merely pointed out the Amerindians were not all killed by US policy. I only referenced the deaths before the northern Europeans started arriving. The US wasn't a political entity until 1776, 168 years after my first European ancestor arrived, an indentured servant at Jamestown in 1608. He managed to survive the starving time and the Indian attacks, and decided to stay when the resupply ship arrived. And I am 3% Cherokee, so not all my ancestors were invaders. Most of them were escaping religious persecution in Europe, and hundreds of my European ancestors had been imprisoned, fined, or sent into exile for spiritual non-conformity. The churchmen regularly killed people for their 'spiritual crimes', they burned men at the stake for translating the Bible. The Swiss nailed their body parts to the city gates, or went to the river and drowned them during baptisms. The Germans hung a pair in iron cages above the cathedral door until their skeletons disintegrated and the bones fell out. The cages are still there. The churchmen burned alive more than 50k women for the crimes of being herbalists and midwives; the 'witches'. They had actual reasons for leaving, and they escaped to a continent that had lost most of its earlier population. You might try to separate your antipathy for the system from ordinary people who have never been in positions of policy making authority, most of which they do not agree with. I have some Quaker ancestors that petitioned the NC colonial legislature to end slavery, in the 17th century, 200 years before the Civil War. You weren't alive then, neither was I.
Why didn’t the Native Americans give diseases to the Europeans?
the indigenous did not keep large numbers of livestock, so there was less zoonosis, and they had smaller populations that generally avoided some other indigenous peoples. The notable exception would be syphilis. The first outbreak in Europe arrived with Columbo's return, and it spread into military troops. The military groups are often to blame for new diseases crossing borders.
https://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/03/native-americans-didnt-wipe-europeans-diseases/
I have seen no evidence that Europeans came to North America determined to disappear the indigenous populations. In the Dred Scott decision Justice McLean admitted that our Constitution did not discriminate and did not authorize slavery. Nothing prevents Afro-American, women, Indians or Hispanics from becoming President or a majority. So we differ in that respect from the Zionists.
You might wish to read ( prob. best on an empty stomach ) The Nutmeg's Curse ( by Amitav Ghosh )
That selection is ironically apropos, given that sources of spices were sought because the Europeans believed the felicitous aromas would prevent illnesses.
And here we are in the age of covid, and irrational belief in western medicine, whose purveyors care more about money than health.
yes, the encounter via the Crusades w/spices ( and later w/e.g., edible nightshades, coffee, chocolate, and maize ) did in many ways bring benefits to depleted Europe: however I cited the book for Contumacious, who will find in its first two chapters the evidence C. speaks of not having seen
IMHO, Finkelstein's "communist" identification probably comes from his having spent the past several years in intense study of Rosa Luxemburg's life and career, and its resonance with his family history. On the other hand, His many years ofstudy/commitment to understanding/describing the Palestinian nakba and the consequent cycle of repression and resistance goes much deeper and carries much more authority. Dont throw the baby out with the bathwater, in other words.
Thanks for the quotes Celia, important. I just want people to understand the land problem in its various forms and to work for solutions. Balfour Declaration supported a Jewish homeland not necessarily the establishment of a Jewish state. Anyway, here are views of some of the early Zionist leaders on land: https://alannahartzok.substack.com/p/zionism-and-land
Late in the 1930s the UK reminded Menachem Begin and the Zionists Terrorist Gangs like Irgun and Haganah that all Balfour required was a small Jewish Ghetto . But then the UK became the target and the Zionis Gangs attacked the Brits HQ at the King David Hotel . Subsequently the Brits left the ME.
Yeah, Begin was quite a character:
"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." - Israeli prime Minister Menachem Begin in a speech to the Knesset [Israeli Parliament] quoted by Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts," New Statesman, June 25, 1982
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-mossad-assassinations/
"As far as I know, the early Zionists had a record of political terrorism almost unmatched in world history, and in 1974 Prime Minister Menachem Begin once even boasted to a television interviewer of having been the founding father of terrorism across the world."
Benjamin Freedman talks about how all of that came about in his 1961 Speech at the Willard Hotel (bitchute), which goes over the origins of WW1 and WW2. He said that the Zionists ruled over America like absolute monarchs (I think that's because they got the power to issue our national currency with the Federal Reserve Act in 1913) He also wrote a book Zionism The Hidden Tyranny http://whale.to/c/hiddenyyranny.pdf
I am sorry that you missed the forest for the trees.
No. I've listened to him a lot. But if he doesn't understand this history OR Covid OR that Chomsky is an Epstein payroll guy…etc etc. Forget all that: The vaccine genocide. Where was he?
YOWZERS! Thats not his wheelhouse. He has dedicated his entire adult life to the study of the Israel/Palestine “conflict.” And has paid a very heavy price for or it. No one, and especially those with more years behind them than in front, has a perfect record.
Re: "he doesn't understand this history OR Covid"
I didn't know that, but it really doesn't surprise me. The Left is clueless when it comes to biopolitics. The technocratic micromanagement of society is too deeply embedded in socialist thought to ever become an object of critique. By extension they can't fathom how psychopaths could ever gain control of public health institutions or effect a democide under cover of a "health emergency". As someone who originally comes from the Left, trying shake them out of the Covidian hypnosis it has been one of the frustrating things in my life.
Thanks for your post, Celia. Those quotes were chilling but illuminating. Seems that Lenin and Trotsky were even worse than i imagined.
Thanks Celia, good move. Norman can be more than grating, for sure, and he does go on, but those are the terms of switching channels, turning it off, when they "go there." The problem with almost all the "discourse" out there is that very few are, so to speak, getting under the hood, mentioning the "deeper politics" of things & the things that go on, as a matter of course. in deep states, banking, or, in fact, right in plain sight! They still speak as if the world actually operates according to some kind of "norms" &, I think, we should all know by now, that simply doesn't cut how things ACTUALLY work. I read the Israeli press & it's common knowledge that a lot of the people killed on October 7th must have been killed by the Israeli military but something so blatantly actual doesn't make a peep on this side of the drink. Thanks for the DeMeo reference too!
To dispense with a much-needed public dialogue whose urgency can't be overstated just because you were triggered by his quoting someone long dead whom you don't like is irrational, peevish and reactionary. Yet none of the quotes you posted from the book were from Trotsky. And what were the exact Trotsky quotes that Finkelstein cited? Did they advocate genocide? Or was he guilty just by association? In which case you're behaving like a 'Karen'.