292 Comments

Trotsky, Zenoviav, Sverdlov, Radok, Litinov and many of the other Bolsheviks were internationalists. A good number were Jews. If they were alive today we would call them globalists.

https://secularheretic.substack.com/p/christianity-and-the-state-of-israel

Expand full comment

I switched it off the minute he started talking about Hamas taking Israel by surprise. What a load of bollocks 🙄 The MOSSAD not only created Hamas, they control them.

Expand full comment

Thank you for the documentation, Celia. It is shocking and despicable how the far left shamelessly romanticizes Mao, Lenin, and other Communist leaders.

In my Croatian Weekly interview (https://margaretannaalice.substack.com/p/my-croatian-weekly-hrvatski-tjednik), I wrote a bit about how BLM Cofounder Patrisse Cullors describes herself and her cofounder Alicia Garza as “trained Marxists” and linked to a video of her gushing over Mao’s ”Little Red Book”:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suN8QTMojEY&t=372s

I think you’d appreciate this article by David Josef Volodzko, who was fired by The Seattle Times for daring to suggest that Lenin was more evil than Hitler “because Hitler only targeted people he personally believed were harmful to society whereas Lenin targeted even those he himself didn’t believe were harmful in any way” and pointing out that Communism is responsible for far more deaths:

https://www.thefp.com/p/seattle-times-writer-fired-over-hitler-lenin

I’ve been doing a letter exchange with David (https://margaretannaalice.substack.com/p/dissident-dialogues-margaret-anna) and have found him to be a nuanced thinker with deep knowledge across a wide range of disciplines, so I think you’ll find his perspective valuable.

Expand full comment

Norman Gary Finkelstein is the first Zionist historian to admit that the Zionist Congress decided to come to Palestine determined to disappear the Palestinians by any means necessary. For that the Zionists have labeled him a “self hating Jew” .

Expand full comment
Nov 8, 2023·edited Nov 8, 2023

I don't agree that your rationale for removing the post, justifies it at all. Let people think and decide for themselves. You could warn them. The following is the comment that I tried to make on that thread:

'...Everybody who doesn't "think" what Israel is doing in Gaza right now is genocide, and/or those who can't decide whether Israel is living up to international humanitarian law or committing genocide, is a moron...'. I couldn't have said it better myself. I'd bet people wouldn't be riding the fence or claiming the mass-murder in Gaza by Israel allegedly "isn't" genocide, if they were in or close to Gaza right now.

Expand full comment
Nov 8, 2023·edited Nov 8, 2023Liked by Celia Farber

I listened to the entire talk and found it extremely well-reasoned and insightful. The big problem now is that people are letting their emotions overtake their thinking. (This is how "Israel has the right to defend itself" effectively turns into "Israel has the right to commit indiscriminate murder.") Norman is the perfect antidote.

I didn't find it helpful to bring in the historical context of dead Communists. Norman provided the context for the current crisis. That's what's important, for me.

Expand full comment

I watched the whole interview and found it interesting and learned some details of what is going on. I think Finkelstein is an important voice now wo highlights the humanity of Gaza's and explains some historical details. Your highlighted pieces from Marx & Trotsky are terrible but I don't think it reflects Norms values. He made some important points.

Expand full comment
Nov 8, 2023Liked by Celia Farber

So you're basically killing the messenger by not focusing on their arguments?

Expand full comment
Nov 8, 2023·edited Nov 8, 2023Liked by Celia Farber

Great collection of intel in that book. Marx is very much appreciated amongst many "people of colour" here where I live. Will show them these quotes.

Expand full comment

Pol Pot had monuments to Himself erected all over Cambodia.

Cairns of Skulls.

Unsophisticated & wasteful by today's standards.

All that killing, but no organ harvest.

Expand full comment

By nearly making indigenous people extinct, the original U.S. imperialists thought they had found a permanent way to mitigate the blowback which comes with building a society off of stealing from other civilizations; they assumed that if they simply shrunk these other civilizations enough, their extractive project would be able to continue indefinitely. This is what the advocates of “Greater Israel” within Netanyahu’s camp think will happen if they expand the Zionist state in the model of Manifest Destiny, and destroy Palestine to the same extent that the Americans and Canadians have destroyed the First Nations. History doesn’t let its villains escape consequences, though; at least not on a macro level, or on a long timeline.

Now that the U.S. empire has reached its unavoidable moment of decline, it’s not like the empire can simply retreat from its global operations without a cost, and continue its internal extractive efforts like nothing has happened. The economic effects of the empire’s global decline are vastly growing the proportion of the internal U.S. population that has revolutionary potential; this means that the surviving indigenous people are in the process of gaining enough allies to be able to defeat the empire, in partnership with all the other elements of modern America which share an interest in that goal.

Expand full comment

IMHO, Finkelstein's "communist" identification probably comes from his having spent the past several years in intense study of Rosa Luxemburg's life and career, and its resonance with his family history. On the other hand, His many years ofstudy/commitment to understanding/describing the Palestinian nakba and the consequent cycle of repression and resistance goes much deeper and carries much more authority. Dont throw the baby out with the bathwater, in other words.

Expand full comment

Thanks for the quotes Celia, important. I just want people to understand the land problem in its various forms and to work for solutions. Balfour Declaration supported a Jewish homeland not necessarily the establishment of a Jewish state. Anyway, here are views of some of the early Zionist leaders on land: https://alannahartzok.substack.com/p/zionism-and-land

Expand full comment

I am sorry that you missed the forest for the trees.

Expand full comment
Nov 8, 2023Liked by Celia Farber

Thanks Celia, good move. Norman can be more than grating, for sure, and he does go on, but those are the terms of switching channels, turning it off, when they "go there." The problem with almost all the "discourse" out there is that very few are, so to speak, getting under the hood, mentioning the "deeper politics" of things & the things that go on, as a matter of course. in deep states, banking, or, in fact, right in plain sight! They still speak as if the world actually operates according to some kind of "norms" &, I think, we should all know by now, that simply doesn't cut how things ACTUALLY work. I read the Israeli press & it's common knowledge that a lot of the people killed on October 7th must have been killed by the Israeli military but something so blatantly actual doesn't make a peep on this side of the drink. Thanks for the DeMeo reference too!

Expand full comment

To dispense with a much-needed public dialogue whose urgency can't be overstated just because you were triggered by his quoting someone long dead whom you don't like is irrational, peevish and reactionary. Yet none of the quotes you posted from the book were from Trotsky. And what were the exact Trotsky quotes that Finkelstein cited? Did they advocate genocide? Or was he guilty just by association? In which case you're behaving like a 'Karen'.

Expand full comment