Iconography or art from the Middle Ages portray Mary directing us viewing the images to her son, either with her gaze or with her hands. She is not disposable or just another woman but is the Mother of God, as she became the tabernacle of God through her fiat, her yes, when asked by the angel Gabriel. The role was not forced upon her. Also, in order to be worthy to be the God bearer she had to be conceived without sin and thus her parents must have been good holy people as well. She and the saints are honored if not venerated and are to serve as exemplars in how to live our lives and become more aligned with who we were made to be, more in the image of God and less as the fallen disobedient first parents Adam and Eve. We got a new start under a New Covenant with Mary becoming the New Eve and Jesus the new Adam.
Idol worship is condemned in the Bible...but the Catholics changed the 10 Commandments to eliminate this commandment 2nd Commandment: "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image" - Exodus 20:4 - is that snobbish enough for you??
You omit Deuteronomy. Who enumerated your 10 Cs? In fact, there are more than ten. As a major theologian, St. Augustine had done the job for the Catholic Church, and there were good, thoughtful reasons for his setup. Consequently, there was no elimination you talk of, only commandment amalgamation.
Some say that Mary was born into a lineage of powerful women who were trained and initiated into the "womb mysteries" and who cultivated and passed on the ability consciously to conceive elevated beings:
Former (now deceased Dominican Priest) Richard Bennett made many videos describing Mary WORSHIP in the Catholic church...God is eternal, self existent....He has no "mother"....Catholics also call Mary the "Queen of Heaven", a practice soundly denounced in the Old Testament by God against His people in Israel....in the 1954 Vatican encyclical "ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XII
ON PROCLAIMING THE QUEENSHIP OF MARY TO THE VENERABLE BRETHREN, THE PATRIARCHS, PRIMATES, ARCHBISHOPS, BISHIOPS, AND OTHER LOCAL ORDINARIES IN PEACE AND COMMUNION WITH THE HOLY SEE" Sec5 18 declares ""the Queen of the entire human race faithful to the exact meaning of her name, who is exalted above all things save only God himself."
The KJV Authorized Bible declares: "The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger." - Jeremiah 7:18
It is always difficult when we become a follower of something and there are others who denigrate our choices. We may ask, “Have you examined this thoroughly, talked to adherents, studied the background, rules, instructions?” … “Well, no, but I have heard and read about it from those who who are not followers.” Faithful Catholics are always stunned when they read what is purported to be knowledgeable criticism of the faith. It’s like a golfer announcing at the beginning of the round that he is permitted six gimmies on the putting green, nine mulligans off the tee and 27 clubs in the bag. “Um, excuse me, but where is that in the Rules of Golf?”…“Rules, schmules. Who has time for that finicky stuff?”
Over four decades ago, I walked away from the Catholic Church and embraced an atheistic mindset for 13 years. Through amazing grace and the touch of the hand of God, I experienced a Saul/Paul reversion and returned, but I did not fully find my way back to the heart of the Church until after another five years of study. I had absorbed and embraced many anti-Catholic tenets in my years away, so I needed to address them one by one. My working question during this time was this: Is this the Church you founded, God, and through which you still speak?
The last domino to fall for me was Mary. Blessedly, one day when reading a passage from Exodus, the scales fell from my eyes.
We are all born of a woman and, in normal circumstances, know love, security and attachment within “family,” which is God’s unique design for us. A loving, stable traditional family is our birthright, and everyone deserves the reality of this gift that has been given to mankind. Alas, there are those who do not enjoy that deep love, security and attachment in a good family situation. [continued below]
On earth, in most family situations, we honour our mothers. We are grateful for her presence, teaching, nurturing, guidance and unconditional love. At the end of our lives, Christians believe we do not “die”; rather, we pass over, go to the “other side of the veil.” Mothers die, and we mourn, but our firm Christian hope is that we will see them again in the great and awesome timelessness of eternity. My mother will always be my mother; we are mystically joined forever as we were once physically joined in the womb.
In the same way, and in very simplistic language, Mary is Jesus’ mommy, and in the timelessness of God and eternity, she will always be his mommy. He was born of Mary and of course he honours her now, as he did while on earth.
How many times have we proudly introduced our parents to others? They are family - special to our hearts, bonded like in no other way. They raised us and sacrificed for us. Catholics scratch their heads at Protestants who seem to ignore Jesus’ mommy, a woman dear to him for all time. I suspect Protestants fear giving undue attention to her, lest they be considered Catholic in their theology and perhaps be accused of “worshipping” Mary. Catholics do not worship Mary! We honour her as Jesus’ mommy. We do not “pray to her”; rather, we ask her to pray for us, just as we ask for each other’s prayers: “Say a prayer for my sister who was diagnosed with cancer.”…“Of course I will!”
Mary, Queen of Heaven. Yeah, that can be tough for many; it was tough for me. Consider this, though: In the OT scriptures, the official position held by the mother of Davidic kings was The Gebirah – the Queen Mother. She was the king’s chief counselor and had a throne on the king’s right. She was considered the most important woman in the kingdom of Judah. This role did not fall to his wife (he may have had more than a few of them); it was his mother who was at his side. Jesus was from the Davidic line. The angel said to Mary: “He shall be called great, the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of David and he shall be king over the House of David forever, and of his kingdom there shall be no end.” Mary was mother of the king of the House of David, a kingdom that would have no end. She was the Queen Mother, the NT Gebirah. He loves her and honours her as only a good son does. Should we not do the same?
We surely know that over history, many are not educated or knowledgeable, and they live simply or remotely, often in a hardscrabble existence. Education and literacy were (and are) a luxury. How, then, is the gathered, sorted, examined, studied information disseminated? It is the nature of man to fall into leadership/follower roles for better sharing of information.
Further, Christians are charged by Jesus Christ in Matthew 28 to “go forth and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things I have commanded you.”
A long lifetime here of “myths and fantasies” cherishing the “book written by men,” the Word of God that has brought me inspiration, peace and purpose unlike anything else.
May you know inspiration, peace and purpose in all your choices.
There was such a wound from the Middle Ages regarding the selling of indulgences, of it seems, Salvation itself! etc., that I can well understand why many, many beautiful people worry so about idolatry of Mary.
I can only say that in the infamous Occult group the Mothers of Darkness, we see the inversion of the role of Mary. They are so very frightened of her Love for Jesus and all people.
Wound from selling of indulgences????? The Popes have killed millions of Bible believing Christians for refusing to bow the knee to the Catholic system...it continues today under cover of wars sponsored, aided and abetted by the Vatican
What exactly are you referring to, Marilynne--when you speak of "millions of Bible believing Christians (killed) for refusing to bow the knee..." help me to understand what you mean, please. Thank you.
The centuries long Papal Iinquisition...there are many books written about it....but since this website is obviously pro-Catholic I'll just reference a short little booklet we use in our church entitled "The Trail of Blood" by Clarence Walker - https://baptistbecause.com/Tracts/TrailBlood.pdf
Over the centuries Rome tortured and killed millions of Bible believing Christians for refusing to bow the knee to the Pope and accept their traditions and false doctrine
There is no defense against the Inquisition. None. It is murderous evil to persecute or kill someone for their spiritual beliefs. Period.I made the mistake of referencing Luther because of the subject heading. I apologize for offending you. Not my intention.
I have started to read about this book you referenced and the author and others. I appreciate learning the perspective and beliefs of the Anabaptists on baptism and the differing views of early Christians.
Thank you for taking the time to reply. Sending warmth and peace.
God bless you....Catholics are taught from a young age that the Papal system is the only way to salvation...that traditions equal God's word in the Bible....I have an elderly neighbor who was born in Austria and has Catholic icons all over his house....when I tried to tell him that Jesus is the only intecessor between man and God, he clings to the Catholic dogma that Mary can intercede for us, too...it's so sad....he will die soon and spend an eternity in Hell barring a miracle
Good morning, Mr. Reeves. I confess, I could not make it through the videocaster's whole piece. I did not find it substantial enough, but if it seemed to help Celia, that makes it useful, I suppose for the moment.
In my opinion, and I do mean to be delicate here, I could not disagree more with this statement: "The Roman catholic faith is a works for salvation based religion in my opinion." Life, particularly human life, is an interpenetration of the spiritual and the material aspects of out being. Christianity, which at both its pinnacle and core, is Catholic. It is sad that it has been suffering so much damage under the modernists and under so much intrusion of protestantism---a deadening influence. There are, nonetheless, some weaknesses that resided in the old, cultural Catholicism (clericalism, an effete and supine lay masculinity vis-à-vis their interaction with the secular, working world, etc.), but these -- I am confident -- can and will be corrected. I hope when the visible part of the messy, bureaucratic, outer crust of the undefilable Church will soon undergo another falling off, as it were.
As an aside comment, this menace Pope Francis (Bergolio) will soon be gone, but it will take many more years, maybe even a century or two, to undergo a full correction --- that is if there is that much time left. But the Bergolian corruption is not so much of his creation, but he is merely the minister of all the ugliness that has been accumulating for a very long time. His gathering the dust into a pile might be thought of as helpful in the sweeping of it up into a pan and the tossing of the dirt [ ̷t̷o̷s̷s̷i̷n̷g̷] into the waste can of Salvation History.
From the unpleasant to the sublime, the exemplary display of this "interpenetration" and, really, integration of the spiritual and the material is the Incarnation, and Mary plays a irreplaceable role in that Incarnation. And this is no "accidental Mary." Mary, the person, was not somehow simply substitutable by any other person or any other woman. She was special and specially chosen for that job --- in every way the same as you and I are specially chosen for our job in the Salvation story. ("This is your mission, if you chose to accept it . . . ") This specificity of each human derives from the intimate connection of the human matter of the person and the spirit. Mary was not just "some bag for a baby," no woman is. No woman is just some "potting soil." And neither are men just another "sperm shooter." Of course, men and women can live like merely, materially inter-changeable stuff. This is the life tending toward condemnation --- a life of chaff to be thrown into the fire.
Thus, the Christmas story, delightful as it is and should be for children and adults alike, is also a very beautifully serious story for metaphysical contemplation of the mystery of the inseparable reality of who and what the human person is as both body and spirit, with the exemplar of what is truly human being defined by Jesus.. (Many of our contemporaries are confused and understandably put off by the term, 'metaphysics', because it has been devilishly confused with silly, profane junk that always seems to veer into crystals, aromatherapy baths and trashy, pseudo-philosophical, confused, reading material). Metaphysics, as seen in Christian Scholastic philosophy is exquisitely profound and important, at least for those called to engage in these foundational questions. Not everyone is called or so constituted to do that on a day-to-day basis, but one should have respect for this important dimension of Christianity.
Please forgive me, but for the present, I am going to put this following comment aside until I can prayerfully muster the appropriate response: "Religion was created by Lucifer, the father of lies. He lied to Eve in the garden." I will simply say this, 'religion' is simply a category that most certainly includes everything that Jesus did. Latin, 'religare', simply means to tie (or suture) together [it is where we get, "to ligate"], as in a wound (the Adamic wound of sin as occurred "in the Garden"), or in the sense of tying together everything in life. The very protestant trope railing against "religion" is tiresome, forgive me again, it is just that this has been explained so many times. Used as you used it is typical of someone complaining about "smells and bells," which most often arise from unfortunate personal experiences that can be sympathized with, but which do not stand as a critique against true Christianity --- nor are these personal bad memories warrant for iconoclasm.
And perhaps to conclude, though there is much more to be examined here, you state, "My salvation is based on the work completed by Jesus, the Son of God, on the cross at Calvary," well -- yes -- but this is just the beginning of what should be an exciting, fulfilling and deeply rewarding life of ever-growing faith. Such a life springs abundantly from this reality of completing the sufferings of Christ (Col 1:24). There is no way to disentangle or separate true believing and true acting (working) because we are intended to be body (matter) and spirit. And the culmination of a vibrantly lived life (and inevitably suffered and joyous life, both) is the resurrection body, not the wisping away, at the moment of death, of some puff of nebulous me.
Okay, that is all I can do at the moment. I hope that was something to chomp upon. Speaking of which, it is time for my breakfast. (I hope there are not too many typos and disjointed errors of syntax as happens when I write early and when I write late.)
When I traveled through Peru I visited many churches as well as 'Inca' ruins. Mary was everywhere but there was very little promotion of Jesus. I asked a local tour guide who I'd become friendly with why this was and she told me that the indigenous folk worshiped Patcha Mama (Patcha Papa the sky god was full of anger and to be avoided as he caused earthquakes and the like). When the early Catholics began preaching Jesus was equated to Patcha Papa and Mary to Patcha Mama. Hence there was a quick uptake in the veneration of Mary and a rejection of Jesus as the focal point, and which continues to this day.
That's an interesting point. In the past, to try to convert pagans to Christianity, their previous beliefs still held considerable sway and were often amalgamated. We see the result of that today with Christmas and Easter, both of which are entrenched in pagan beliefs and practices, and neither of which are truly biblical in origin.
I used to imagine the Spanish rampaging through South America and putting those pagans who refused to recognise Jesus as their saviour to death by the sword. It appears that the reality was much more pragmatic. All of the churches I visited had an altar to Jesus but there were nowhere near as many candles as had been lit for Mary.
I was raised a Catholic but as an adult, started studying the bible and found many of the Catholic teachings didn't correlate. I learned that Mary was just a humble, God-fearing, spiritual woman given an amazing assignment by God. But I truly loved her as a child and young woman, and felt she understood me, being female. And I would light many a candle to her in adoration. When I read that the only way to approach our Heavenly Father was through Jesus, it saddened me for a while until his phenomenal sacrifice for mankind truly hit home. Nevertheless, I still have a soft spot for Mary but more as a mother to mother.
Some say, Catholics say, CS Lewis said, blah , blah , blah. How about what GOD SAYS ? Here is ALL you need to know, according to God's word not man. God used Mary's womb as a vessel, to give mankind a Savior. Period . let's just stop there. Mary cannot forgive any sins and NO WHERE in God's word does it say we are to worship or pray to her in any way, shape or form. This is the unvarnished stripped down truth according to God's word.
Biblical text needed to be added to 400 yrs later at a council? Traditions on par with the Gospel? Mary was blessed by God. Never eluded to as mother of God. A lg # of words don't validate!
Sorry to burst your "bubble" here, but the doctrine clearly declared in the written scriptures shows that Jesus is the "Son of God", not God himself. And Mary was simply a wonderful lady who believed the promises that God spoke to her via an angel, that she would give birth to God's son.
Any teaching which declares that Mary is the "mother of God" STINKS of idolatry, and shows how utterly foolish are the many religions of the world when they try to speak regarding spiritual matters "outside" of what has been clearly proclaimed within the written scriptures.
It leaps off every page: Jesus Christ is true man, true God. How many ways can he say it? I could go through the four Gospels and list them all, but sense it would not be enough for some. Either we examine the sayings in light of biblical history and see it - and are convicted and edified by it - or not.
But C.S. Lewis cannot be equaled in making this case for the divinity of Christ in his famous “Liar, Lunatic or Lord” argument. He proceeds from Gospel revelations that Jesus is God and he made this claim during his ministry on earth:
“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him [that is, Christ]: ‘I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God.’ That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic–on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg–or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse…. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come up with any patronising nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”
100%! The list of contradictions within the catholic church (not just) vs scripture, is long. It should be objectionable to everyone. This would be considered a false teaching.
Do you really think it all began with a sanctimonious Jewish wonder-worker, strolling about 1st century Palestine? Prepare to be enlightened.
Jesus – The Imaginary Friend
Christianity was the ultimate product of religious syncretism in the ancient world. Its emergence owed nothing to a holy carpenter. There were many Jesuses but the fable was a cultural construct.
The nativity yarn is a concatenation of nonsense. The genealogies of Jesus, both Matthew's version and Luke's, are pious fiction. Nazareth did not exist in the 1st century AD – the area was a burial ground of rock-cut tombs.
With multiple authors behind the original gospel story it is no surprise that the figure of "Jesus" is a mess of contradictions. Yet the story is so thinly drawn that being a "good Christian" might mean almost anything.
The 12 disciples are as fictitious as their master, invented to legitimise the claims of the early churches. The original Mary was not a virgin, that idea was borrowed from pagan goddesses. The pagan world knew all about virgins getting pregnant by randy gods: The Mythical "Virgin Mother".
Scholars have known all this for more than 200 years but priestcraft is a highly profitable business and finances an industry of deceit to keep the show on the road.
"Jesus better documented than any other ancient figure"? Don't believe a word of it. Unlike the mythical Jesus, a real historical figure like Julius Caesar has a mass of mutually supporting evidence.
The case for a mythical Jesus – Nailing Jesus. Book review: Ehrman - Did Jesus Exist? Popular scholar recoils from the abyss. A rescue mission for the "Jesus of history" – The New Apologists
There is archaeological evidence for the wedding at Cana and for Pontius Pilate's existence for sure. It's really hard to believe how upset & malicious Jews still are over Jesus to this very day, even breaking daily into the homes of Messianic Jews in Israel, IF HE NEVER existed: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sUJrXNCfUrk?feature=share
Mary is blessed amongst women not above women. She is not the Mediatrix, Co-Redemptrix, nor the Queen of heaven. She can't hear our prayers, protect us, nor save us as some would have us believe.
A big stumbling block to this discussion is the prevalence (I'd guess a majority prevalence) of anti-Catholic sentiment in the Alt-Sphere, more often than not specifically implicating the Catholic Church in the amorphously theorized, nefarious welter of the Cabal.
Yes. Concrete thinking applied to the cabal is inadequate. Every Catholic is not in the Cabal. Every Jesuit is not in the Cabal. Every First Degree Mason is not in the Cabal. Every member of the United Nations is not in the Cabal. Every member of the DOD is not in the Cabal. This logical fallacy falls right into their playbook.....they enjoy projecting that kind of divisive thinking on everyone, don't they? The level of fear they stimulate and constantly pour out onto the airwaves feeds this black and white childhood thinking.
As for Mother Mary, just love her, have no problem speaking with her. Love the Rosary, the devotions, the whole tamale. If God became man, he had a mom. That's her! She is the premiere Warrior against Evil. Under her tender foot it is crushed.
Henry Ossawa Tanner has a wonderful painting of the Annunciation in the Philadelphia Museum of Art. If you want to see a beautiful depiction of the Angel announcing to Mary what was going to happen to her, look this awesome painting up online.
In 2,000 years of Catholicism only 2 things have been declared infallible : 1) the Divinity of Christ (in the first thousand years) and 2) the Assumption of Mary into heaven in 1954 (the second thousand years). The great analyst Carl Jung remarked of the second that it was the greatest event of the century to elevate the status of women and the consciousness of the feminine....and that it lives in faith and belief and not just a matter of historical fact.
There are examples in the Old and New testaments of prophets and angels appearing and conversing with people, but I think you are right, nowhere is this instruction given, as far as I am aware.
Love the Our Father. It tells us who we are...the children of the Living God. Thank you for bringing this out. Blessings
Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying here. Could you explain it?
I am using a metaphor which illustrates that the free will decision and humble acceptance of God's will by a young Jewish girl to hear an Angel and bear the Savior (at risk of her being stoned to death if Joseph didn't cover for her) totally crushed the plan of Lucifer to capture and enslave the children of God in Satan's kingdom.
What is double-minded?
You said "making people fall in love with torture and suffering so they equate it with divine will"
Isn't it the Kingdom of Satan that worships torture and suffering? And isn't it their bastardization known as the Black Mass where you would see people getting drunk on blood?
The Catholic Church totally opposes Lucifer and his minions, and has a Rite of Exorcism to deal with this.
Perhaps you are picking up the truth that the Luciferians hide within the Catholic Church with their malevolent and perverse aspirations and you are correct there. I would agree with you. Perhaps you are picking up their influence in the Church in a way most wouldn't readily see. That is good!
The great Cardinal Malachi Martin, priest, exorcist, anthropologist, spoke and wrote of this Luciferian/Masonic infiltration often.
Well, Celia, see what you have gone and done? I think, if I might do so in a gentle way, that if you are going to pull the plug out of the tank holding such a reservoir of ideas and emotions---you should really try to interact in conversation with at least the more serious comments. Otherwise, though this may accomplish a few good things here and there for [ ̷t̷h̷o̷u̷g̷h̷ ] those who might derive benefits, it does not serve a great purpose other than some venting of jumbled thinking. Perhaps I am very wrong. Being wrong is not foreign to the path to where I am now. But at least these free for alls seem to promote only the lowest level of what this forum could achieve. At least ask some questions, you know, Socratically.
"Elenchus," eh? I love it. I must admit, I am not very good student of Plato (Socrates). I am just a dumb ol' Aristotelian. Oh, I do not know that it is as dismal of a picture as you paint it, though it is indisputable that online comment fora are not clean and tidy places for tackling these issues. I am not sure whose dog named Elenchus needs to be tied up in the back yard because he is disrupting the after-dinner conversation and parlor games, either.
The mode of analyses for natural science and Faith -- the items in the dissecting pan -- are quite different. So, we have to politely agree on how we talk about what kind of phenomena and experiences. But there is more to it than that, I submit. There is the question of dissection by it self (that is, philosophical reductionism), and when and how can we lean back, take a sip of sherry, and say, "Okay, it is getting late and the physical senses are getting tired, can we now talk a bit about things in a holistic manner (viz., the anti-reductionist way)?"
But this all assumes and requires that we have willing, happy, good-willed and humble interlocutors---you know, people who want to be friends.
Dear poetinapaperbag, Could you please translate: "With nobs on. ;-p" ---I am not adept enough to interpret this response; I need a good dose of explicit language, with only occasional and easily detectable satire, in order to communicate effectively.
Biblical text needed to be added to 400 yrs later at a council? Traditions on par with the Gospel? Mary was blessed by God. Never eluded to as mother of God. This video guy needs to know a lg # of words don't validate!
As a Lutheran, I've always had a firm sense of this distinction. Oddly, while listening to this, I found myself thinking about my initial and primary objection to the pop star who calls herself Madonna. She's a living object lesson illustrating thus theological heresy. And of course, she set herself up as this. Gavin hints at the inversion problem in the video and you can see in his eyes, or so I thought, his decision not to take that path in his discussion. Any and all hero or celebrity worship is a sort of heresy and things being what they are now, it is not difficult to imagine that Madonna directly signaled her inversion by the name she gave to herself.
Queen of Heaven v Mother of God v God the Father seem to be the nodes in the continuum of argument below. Carl Jung applauded the Catholic Church's recognition of the Assumption and Her elevated position as Queen of Heaven. Notice I elevated her pronoun as well.
I'm more w/ the Pacha Mamma folks. Enough of this homo erotic theology. 3 males, no females, no children, no joy. We've got the homicidal Father who's pleased w/ the Son's sacrifice and sends a haunt to spook us into imitating Christ in our lives. It's death cult worship concocted by dissident Jews to get pagans to worship the Jewish God w/o becoming part of the club and only partaking in its worldly mission as stooges not machers (from Yiddish: fixer, maker, big shot).
Catholics do not worship Mary, we honor her.
Iconography or art from the Middle Ages portray Mary directing us viewing the images to her son, either with her gaze or with her hands. She is not disposable or just another woman but is the Mother of God, as she became the tabernacle of God through her fiat, her yes, when asked by the angel Gabriel. The role was not forced upon her. Also, in order to be worthy to be the God bearer she had to be conceived without sin and thus her parents must have been good holy people as well. She and the saints are honored if not venerated and are to serve as exemplars in how to live our lives and become more aligned with who we were made to be, more in the image of God and less as the fallen disobedient first parents Adam and Eve. We got a new start under a New Covenant with Mary becoming the New Eve and Jesus the new Adam.
Idol worship is condemned in the Bible...but the Catholics changed the 10 Commandments to eliminate this commandment 2nd Commandment: "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image" - Exodus 20:4 - is that snobbish enough for you??
What if the idol is idle or addled?
You omit Deuteronomy. Who enumerated your 10 Cs? In fact, there are more than ten. As a major theologian, St. Augustine had done the job for the Catholic Church, and there were good, thoughtful reasons for his setup. Consequently, there was no elimination you talk of, only commandment amalgamation.
What about sainthood is ungodly?
Self-made honor rolls are below such.
Validity is self-driven.
Some say that Mary was born into a lineage of powerful women who were trained and initiated into the "womb mysteries" and who cultivated and passed on the ability consciously to conceive elevated beings:
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/55712815
https://thegodabovegod.com/the-secret-history-of-the-virgin-mary/
Rome conferred divine status on Jesus only in 325 at The Council of Nicea in a VERY close vote. Just sayin'.
Jesus would have been easier to find to be murdered had he been an elevated being.
It depends on whether they are real Jews or make-believe ones like the Zionists.
Them not being make-believe like Zionists and Ashkanazis.
It's not that hard. Mary was the Mother of Christ. Christ was an aspect of God. God was the father.
So, Mary being the mother of god makes sense to this Baptist.
Pity anyone who is an aspect.
Former (now deceased Dominican Priest) Richard Bennett made many videos describing Mary WORSHIP in the Catholic church...God is eternal, self existent....He has no "mother"....Catholics also call Mary the "Queen of Heaven", a practice soundly denounced in the Old Testament by God against His people in Israel....in the 1954 Vatican encyclical "ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XII
ON PROCLAIMING THE QUEENSHIP OF MARY TO THE VENERABLE BRETHREN, THE PATRIARCHS, PRIMATES, ARCHBISHOPS, BISHIOPS, AND OTHER LOCAL ORDINARIES IN PEACE AND COMMUNION WITH THE HOLY SEE" Sec5 18 declares ""the Queen of the entire human race faithful to the exact meaning of her name, who is exalted above all things save only God himself."
https://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_11101954_ad-caeli-reginam.html
The KJV Authorized Bible declares: "The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger." - Jeremiah 7:18
Directly from a Catholic website: Mary is an intercessor/mediatrix between man and God - https://www.catholicshare.com/the-role-of-the-virgin-mary-in-catholicism/
"For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus..." - 1Tim 2:5
I urge you Catholics to listen to some of former Priest Richard Bennett's material at his website
www.bereanbeacon.org and his videoes at https://www.youtube.com/@bereanbeacon30
It is always difficult when we become a follower of something and there are others who denigrate our choices. We may ask, “Have you examined this thoroughly, talked to adherents, studied the background, rules, instructions?” … “Well, no, but I have heard and read about it from those who who are not followers.” Faithful Catholics are always stunned when they read what is purported to be knowledgeable criticism of the faith. It’s like a golfer announcing at the beginning of the round that he is permitted six gimmies on the putting green, nine mulligans off the tee and 27 clubs in the bag. “Um, excuse me, but where is that in the Rules of Golf?”…“Rules, schmules. Who has time for that finicky stuff?”
Over four decades ago, I walked away from the Catholic Church and embraced an atheistic mindset for 13 years. Through amazing grace and the touch of the hand of God, I experienced a Saul/Paul reversion and returned, but I did not fully find my way back to the heart of the Church until after another five years of study. I had absorbed and embraced many anti-Catholic tenets in my years away, so I needed to address them one by one. My working question during this time was this: Is this the Church you founded, God, and through which you still speak?
The last domino to fall for me was Mary. Blessedly, one day when reading a passage from Exodus, the scales fell from my eyes.
We are all born of a woman and, in normal circumstances, know love, security and attachment within “family,” which is God’s unique design for us. A loving, stable traditional family is our birthright, and everyone deserves the reality of this gift that has been given to mankind. Alas, there are those who do not enjoy that deep love, security and attachment in a good family situation. [continued below]
On earth, in most family situations, we honour our mothers. We are grateful for her presence, teaching, nurturing, guidance and unconditional love. At the end of our lives, Christians believe we do not “die”; rather, we pass over, go to the “other side of the veil.” Mothers die, and we mourn, but our firm Christian hope is that we will see them again in the great and awesome timelessness of eternity. My mother will always be my mother; we are mystically joined forever as we were once physically joined in the womb.
In the same way, and in very simplistic language, Mary is Jesus’ mommy, and in the timelessness of God and eternity, she will always be his mommy. He was born of Mary and of course he honours her now, as he did while on earth.
How many times have we proudly introduced our parents to others? They are family - special to our hearts, bonded like in no other way. They raised us and sacrificed for us. Catholics scratch their heads at Protestants who seem to ignore Jesus’ mommy, a woman dear to him for all time. I suspect Protestants fear giving undue attention to her, lest they be considered Catholic in their theology and perhaps be accused of “worshipping” Mary. Catholics do not worship Mary! We honour her as Jesus’ mommy. We do not “pray to her”; rather, we ask her to pray for us, just as we ask for each other’s prayers: “Say a prayer for my sister who was diagnosed with cancer.”…“Of course I will!”
Mary, Queen of Heaven. Yeah, that can be tough for many; it was tough for me. Consider this, though: In the OT scriptures, the official position held by the mother of Davidic kings was The Gebirah – the Queen Mother. She was the king’s chief counselor and had a throne on the king’s right. She was considered the most important woman in the kingdom of Judah. This role did not fall to his wife (he may have had more than a few of them); it was his mother who was at his side. Jesus was from the Davidic line. The angel said to Mary: “He shall be called great, the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of David and he shall be king over the House of David forever, and of his kingdom there shall be no end.” Mary was mother of the king of the House of David, a kingdom that would have no end. She was the Queen Mother, the NT Gebirah. He loves her and honours her as only a good son does. Should we not do the same?
What is the alternative?
We surely know that over history, many are not educated or knowledgeable, and they live simply or remotely, often in a hardscrabble existence. Education and literacy were (and are) a luxury. How, then, is the gathered, sorted, examined, studied information disseminated? It is the nature of man to fall into leadership/follower roles for better sharing of information.
Further, Christians are charged by Jesus Christ in Matthew 28 to “go forth and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things I have commanded you.”
Okay, poet.
Chacun a son goût.
A long lifetime here of “myths and fantasies” cherishing the “book written by men,” the Word of God that has brought me inspiration, peace and purpose unlike anything else.
May you know inspiration, peace and purpose in all your choices.
There was such a wound from the Middle Ages regarding the selling of indulgences, of it seems, Salvation itself! etc., that I can well understand why many, many beautiful people worry so about idolatry of Mary.
I can only say that in the infamous Occult group the Mothers of Darkness, we see the inversion of the role of Mary. They are so very frightened of her Love for Jesus and all people.
Wound from selling of indulgences????? The Popes have killed millions of Bible believing Christians for refusing to bow the knee to the Catholic system...it continues today under cover of wars sponsored, aided and abetted by the Vatican
What exactly are you referring to, Marilynne--when you speak of "millions of Bible believing Christians (killed) for refusing to bow the knee..." help me to understand what you mean, please. Thank you.
The centuries long Papal Iinquisition...there are many books written about it....but since this website is obviously pro-Catholic I'll just reference a short little booklet we use in our church entitled "The Trail of Blood" by Clarence Walker - https://baptistbecause.com/Tracts/TrailBlood.pdf
Over the centuries Rome tortured and killed millions of Bible believing Christians for refusing to bow the knee to the Pope and accept their traditions and false doctrine
There is no defense against the Inquisition. None. It is murderous evil to persecute or kill someone for their spiritual beliefs. Period.I made the mistake of referencing Luther because of the subject heading. I apologize for offending you. Not my intention.
I have started to read about this book you referenced and the author and others. I appreciate learning the perspective and beliefs of the Anabaptists on baptism and the differing views of early Christians.
Thank you for taking the time to reply. Sending warmth and peace.
God bless you....Catholics are taught from a young age that the Papal system is the only way to salvation...that traditions equal God's word in the Bible....I have an elderly neighbor who was born in Austria and has Catholic icons all over his house....when I tried to tell him that Jesus is the only intecessor between man and God, he clings to the Catholic dogma that Mary can intercede for us, too...it's so sad....he will die soon and spend an eternity in Hell barring a miracle
John 3:25. “An argument developed between some of John’s disciples and a certain Jew (s?) over the matter of ceremonial washing”.
This ceremonial washing was discussed in the context of observing both John and Jesus “baptizing”.
Do we err in understanding baptism to be more than ceremonial washing?
Good morning, Mr. Reeves. I confess, I could not make it through the videocaster's whole piece. I did not find it substantial enough, but if it seemed to help Celia, that makes it useful, I suppose for the moment.
In my opinion, and I do mean to be delicate here, I could not disagree more with this statement: "The Roman catholic faith is a works for salvation based religion in my opinion." Life, particularly human life, is an interpenetration of the spiritual and the material aspects of out being. Christianity, which at both its pinnacle and core, is Catholic. It is sad that it has been suffering so much damage under the modernists and under so much intrusion of protestantism---a deadening influence. There are, nonetheless, some weaknesses that resided in the old, cultural Catholicism (clericalism, an effete and supine lay masculinity vis-à-vis their interaction with the secular, working world, etc.), but these -- I am confident -- can and will be corrected. I hope when the visible part of the messy, bureaucratic, outer crust of the undefilable Church will soon undergo another falling off, as it were.
As an aside comment, this menace Pope Francis (Bergolio) will soon be gone, but it will take many more years, maybe even a century or two, to undergo a full correction --- that is if there is that much time left. But the Bergolian corruption is not so much of his creation, but he is merely the minister of all the ugliness that has been accumulating for a very long time. His gathering the dust into a pile might be thought of as helpful in the sweeping of it up into a pan and the tossing of the dirt [ ̷t̷o̷s̷s̷i̷n̷g̷] into the waste can of Salvation History.
From the unpleasant to the sublime, the exemplary display of this "interpenetration" and, really, integration of the spiritual and the material is the Incarnation, and Mary plays a irreplaceable role in that Incarnation. And this is no "accidental Mary." Mary, the person, was not somehow simply substitutable by any other person or any other woman. She was special and specially chosen for that job --- in every way the same as you and I are specially chosen for our job in the Salvation story. ("This is your mission, if you chose to accept it . . . ") This specificity of each human derives from the intimate connection of the human matter of the person and the spirit. Mary was not just "some bag for a baby," no woman is. No woman is just some "potting soil." And neither are men just another "sperm shooter." Of course, men and women can live like merely, materially inter-changeable stuff. This is the life tending toward condemnation --- a life of chaff to be thrown into the fire.
Thus, the Christmas story, delightful as it is and should be for children and adults alike, is also a very beautifully serious story for metaphysical contemplation of the mystery of the inseparable reality of who and what the human person is as both body and spirit, with the exemplar of what is truly human being defined by Jesus.. (Many of our contemporaries are confused and understandably put off by the term, 'metaphysics', because it has been devilishly confused with silly, profane junk that always seems to veer into crystals, aromatherapy baths and trashy, pseudo-philosophical, confused, reading material). Metaphysics, as seen in Christian Scholastic philosophy is exquisitely profound and important, at least for those called to engage in these foundational questions. Not everyone is called or so constituted to do that on a day-to-day basis, but one should have respect for this important dimension of Christianity.
Please forgive me, but for the present, I am going to put this following comment aside until I can prayerfully muster the appropriate response: "Religion was created by Lucifer, the father of lies. He lied to Eve in the garden." I will simply say this, 'religion' is simply a category that most certainly includes everything that Jesus did. Latin, 'religare', simply means to tie (or suture) together [it is where we get, "to ligate"], as in a wound (the Adamic wound of sin as occurred "in the Garden"), or in the sense of tying together everything in life. The very protestant trope railing against "religion" is tiresome, forgive me again, it is just that this has been explained so many times. Used as you used it is typical of someone complaining about "smells and bells," which most often arise from unfortunate personal experiences that can be sympathized with, but which do not stand as a critique against true Christianity --- nor are these personal bad memories warrant for iconoclasm.
And perhaps to conclude, though there is much more to be examined here, you state, "My salvation is based on the work completed by Jesus, the Son of God, on the cross at Calvary," well -- yes -- but this is just the beginning of what should be an exciting, fulfilling and deeply rewarding life of ever-growing faith. Such a life springs abundantly from this reality of completing the sufferings of Christ (Col 1:24). There is no way to disentangle or separate true believing and true acting (working) because we are intended to be body (matter) and spirit. And the culmination of a vibrantly lived life (and inevitably suffered and joyous life, both) is the resurrection body, not the wisping away, at the moment of death, of some puff of nebulous me.
Okay, that is all I can do at the moment. I hope that was something to chomp upon. Speaking of which, it is time for my breakfast. (I hope there are not too many typos and disjointed errors of syntax as happens when I write early and when I write late.)
This is magnificent and mighty. Your theological and philosophical presentation here is appreciated. Thank you.
Thank you Miss/Mrs. Schrader. It took a bit of work.
When I traveled through Peru I visited many churches as well as 'Inca' ruins. Mary was everywhere but there was very little promotion of Jesus. I asked a local tour guide who I'd become friendly with why this was and she told me that the indigenous folk worshiped Patcha Mama (Patcha Papa the sky god was full of anger and to be avoided as he caused earthquakes and the like). When the early Catholics began preaching Jesus was equated to Patcha Papa and Mary to Patcha Mama. Hence there was a quick uptake in the veneration of Mary and a rejection of Jesus as the focal point, and which continues to this day.
That's an interesting point. In the past, to try to convert pagans to Christianity, their previous beliefs still held considerable sway and were often amalgamated. We see the result of that today with Christmas and Easter, both of which are entrenched in pagan beliefs and practices, and neither of which are truly biblical in origin.
I used to imagine the Spanish rampaging through South America and putting those pagans who refused to recognise Jesus as their saviour to death by the sword. It appears that the reality was much more pragmatic. All of the churches I visited had an altar to Jesus but there were nowhere near as many candles as had been lit for Mary.
I was raised a Catholic but as an adult, started studying the bible and found many of the Catholic teachings didn't correlate. I learned that Mary was just a humble, God-fearing, spiritual woman given an amazing assignment by God. But I truly loved her as a child and young woman, and felt she understood me, being female. And I would light many a candle to her in adoration. When I read that the only way to approach our Heavenly Father was through Jesus, it saddened me for a while until his phenomenal sacrifice for mankind truly hit home. Nevertheless, I still have a soft spot for Mary but more as a mother to mother.
Some say, Catholics say, CS Lewis said, blah , blah , blah. How about what GOD SAYS ? Here is ALL you need to know, according to God's word not man. God used Mary's womb as a vessel, to give mankind a Savior. Period . let's just stop there. Mary cannot forgive any sins and NO WHERE in God's word does it say we are to worship or pray to her in any way, shape or form. This is the unvarnished stripped down truth according to God's word.
Try reading (free online): 'The Glories of Mary', by Anphonsus de Ligouri, Rev. Eugene Grimm, (c) 1931. It will positively change your life.
Biblical text needed to be added to 400 yrs later at a council? Traditions on par with the Gospel? Mary was blessed by God. Never eluded to as mother of God. A lg # of words don't validate!
Sorry to burst your "bubble" here, but the doctrine clearly declared in the written scriptures shows that Jesus is the "Son of God", not God himself. And Mary was simply a wonderful lady who believed the promises that God spoke to her via an angel, that she would give birth to God's son.
Any teaching which declares that Mary is the "mother of God" STINKS of idolatry, and shows how utterly foolish are the many religions of the world when they try to speak regarding spiritual matters "outside" of what has been clearly proclaimed within the written scriptures.
Oh my, it seems we are reading different Gospels.
It leaps off every page: Jesus Christ is true man, true God. How many ways can he say it? I could go through the four Gospels and list them all, but sense it would not be enough for some. Either we examine the sayings in light of biblical history and see it - and are convicted and edified by it - or not.
But C.S. Lewis cannot be equaled in making this case for the divinity of Christ in his famous “Liar, Lunatic or Lord” argument. He proceeds from Gospel revelations that Jesus is God and he made this claim during his ministry on earth:
“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him [that is, Christ]: ‘I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God.’ That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic–on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg–or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse…. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come up with any patronising nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”
I agree....fully God and fully man. We don't have to understand how that is or explain it, we just have to believe it...it is called faith.
100%! The list of contradictions within the catholic church (not just) vs scripture, is long. It should be objectionable to everyone. This would be considered a false teaching.
Yikes.
Do you really think it all began with a sanctimonious Jewish wonder-worker, strolling about 1st century Palestine? Prepare to be enlightened.
Jesus – The Imaginary Friend
Christianity was the ultimate product of religious syncretism in the ancient world. Its emergence owed nothing to a holy carpenter. There were many Jesuses but the fable was a cultural construct.
The nativity yarn is a concatenation of nonsense. The genealogies of Jesus, both Matthew's version and Luke's, are pious fiction. Nazareth did not exist in the 1st century AD – the area was a burial ground of rock-cut tombs.
With multiple authors behind the original gospel story it is no surprise that the figure of "Jesus" is a mess of contradictions. Yet the story is so thinly drawn that being a "good Christian" might mean almost anything.
The 12 disciples are as fictitious as their master, invented to legitimise the claims of the early churches. The original Mary was not a virgin, that idea was borrowed from pagan goddesses. The pagan world knew all about virgins getting pregnant by randy gods: The Mythical "Virgin Mother".
Scholars have known all this for more than 200 years but priestcraft is a highly profitable business and finances an industry of deceit to keep the show on the road.
"Jesus better documented than any other ancient figure"? Don't believe a word of it. Unlike the mythical Jesus, a real historical figure like Julius Caesar has a mass of mutually supporting evidence.
The case for a mythical Jesus – Nailing Jesus. Book review: Ehrman - Did Jesus Exist? Popular scholar recoils from the abyss. A rescue mission for the "Jesus of history" – The New Apologists
https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/
There is archaeological evidence for the wedding at Cana and for Pontius Pilate's existence for sure. It's really hard to believe how upset & malicious Jews still are over Jesus to this very day, even breaking daily into the homes of Messianic Jews in Israel, IF HE NEVER existed: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sUJrXNCfUrk?feature=share
read the book or watch the move "A Case for Christ".
It must have been hard for Mary to give birth to the entire trinity.
Mary is blessed amongst women not above women. She is not the Mediatrix, Co-Redemptrix, nor the Queen of heaven. She can't hear our prayers, protect us, nor save us as some would have us believe.
A big stumbling block to this discussion is the prevalence (I'd guess a majority prevalence) of anti-Catholic sentiment in the Alt-Sphere, more often than not specifically implicating the Catholic Church in the amorphously theorized, nefarious welter of the Cabal.
Yes. Concrete thinking applied to the cabal is inadequate. Every Catholic is not in the Cabal. Every Jesuit is not in the Cabal. Every First Degree Mason is not in the Cabal. Every member of the United Nations is not in the Cabal. Every member of the DOD is not in the Cabal. This logical fallacy falls right into their playbook.....they enjoy projecting that kind of divisive thinking on everyone, don't they? The level of fear they stimulate and constantly pour out onto the airwaves feeds this black and white childhood thinking.
As for Mother Mary, just love her, have no problem speaking with her. Love the Rosary, the devotions, the whole tamale. If God became man, he had a mom. That's her! She is the premiere Warrior against Evil. Under her tender foot it is crushed.
Henry Ossawa Tanner has a wonderful painting of the Annunciation in the Philadelphia Museum of Art. If you want to see a beautiful depiction of the Angel announcing to Mary what was going to happen to her, look this awesome painting up online.
In 2,000 years of Catholicism only 2 things have been declared infallible : 1) the Divinity of Christ (in the first thousand years) and 2) the Assumption of Mary into heaven in 1954 (the second thousand years). The great analyst Carl Jung remarked of the second that it was the greatest event of the century to elevate the status of women and the consciousness of the feminine....and that it lives in faith and belief and not just a matter of historical fact.
Ave Maria, gratia plena Dominus tecum....
Where does scripture teach we should pray to any saint or ascended being? Our Father who art in heaven... Anyone who asks the Father in my name..
There are examples in the Old and New testaments of prophets and angels appearing and conversing with people, but I think you are right, nowhere is this instruction given, as far as I am aware.
Love the Our Father. It tells us who we are...the children of the Living God. Thank you for bringing this out. Blessings
Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying here. Could you explain it?
I am using a metaphor which illustrates that the free will decision and humble acceptance of God's will by a young Jewish girl to hear an Angel and bear the Savior (at risk of her being stoned to death if Joseph didn't cover for her) totally crushed the plan of Lucifer to capture and enslave the children of God in Satan's kingdom.
What is double-minded?
You said "making people fall in love with torture and suffering so they equate it with divine will"
Isn't it the Kingdom of Satan that worships torture and suffering? And isn't it their bastardization known as the Black Mass where you would see people getting drunk on blood?
The Catholic Church totally opposes Lucifer and his minions, and has a Rite of Exorcism to deal with this.
Perhaps you are picking up the truth that the Luciferians hide within the Catholic Church with their malevolent and perverse aspirations and you are correct there. I would agree with you. Perhaps you are picking up their influence in the Church in a way most wouldn't readily see. That is good!
The great Cardinal Malachi Martin, priest, exorcist, anthropologist, spoke and wrote of this Luciferian/Masonic infiltration often.
A # of words without clarity. In another words: Huh?
A big stumbling block
to this discussion
is
the prevalence
(I'd guess a majority prevalence)
of anti-Catholic sentiment in the Alt-Sphere,
more often than not
specifically
implicating
the Catholic Church
in the amorphously theorized, nefarious welter of the Cabal.
Well, Celia, see what you have gone and done? I think, if I might do so in a gentle way, that if you are going to pull the plug out of the tank holding such a reservoir of ideas and emotions---you should really try to interact in conversation with at least the more serious comments. Otherwise, though this may accomplish a few good things here and there for [ ̷t̷h̷o̷u̷g̷h̷ ] those who might derive benefits, it does not serve a great purpose other than some venting of jumbled thinking. Perhaps I am very wrong. Being wrong is not foreign to the path to where I am now. But at least these free for alls seem to promote only the lowest level of what this forum could achieve. At least ask some questions, you know, Socratically.
"Elenchus," eh? I love it. I must admit, I am not very good student of Plato (Socrates). I am just a dumb ol' Aristotelian. Oh, I do not know that it is as dismal of a picture as you paint it, though it is indisputable that online comment fora are not clean and tidy places for tackling these issues. I am not sure whose dog named Elenchus needs to be tied up in the back yard because he is disrupting the after-dinner conversation and parlor games, either.
The mode of analyses for natural science and Faith -- the items in the dissecting pan -- are quite different. So, we have to politely agree on how we talk about what kind of phenomena and experiences. But there is more to it than that, I submit. There is the question of dissection by it self (that is, philosophical reductionism), and when and how can we lean back, take a sip of sherry, and say, "Okay, it is getting late and the physical senses are getting tired, can we now talk a bit about things in a holistic manner (viz., the anti-reductionist way)?"
But this all assumes and requires that we have willing, happy, good-willed and humble interlocutors---you know, people who want to be friends.
Aye, nor vice versa.
Dear poetinapaperbag, Could you please translate: "With nobs on. ;-p" ---I am not adept enough to interpret this response; I need a good dose of explicit language, with only occasional and easily detectable satire, in order to communicate effectively.
Biblical text needed to be added to 400 yrs later at a council? Traditions on par with the Gospel? Mary was blessed by God. Never eluded to as mother of God. This video guy needs to know a lg # of words don't validate!
As a Lutheran, I've always had a firm sense of this distinction. Oddly, while listening to this, I found myself thinking about my initial and primary objection to the pop star who calls herself Madonna. She's a living object lesson illustrating thus theological heresy. And of course, she set herself up as this. Gavin hints at the inversion problem in the video and you can see in his eyes, or so I thought, his decision not to take that path in his discussion. Any and all hero or celebrity worship is a sort of heresy and things being what they are now, it is not difficult to imagine that Madonna directly signaled her inversion by the name she gave to herself.
there is nothing in the bio of this video to indicate he is a Lutheran. On the contrary, he is a Baptist.
Celia started that denomination
Queen of Heaven v Mother of God v God the Father seem to be the nodes in the continuum of argument below. Carl Jung applauded the Catholic Church's recognition of the Assumption and Her elevated position as Queen of Heaven. Notice I elevated her pronoun as well.
I'm more w/ the Pacha Mamma folks. Enough of this homo erotic theology. 3 males, no females, no children, no joy. We've got the homicidal Father who's pleased w/ the Son's sacrifice and sends a haunt to spook us into imitating Christ in our lives. It's death cult worship concocted by dissident Jews to get pagans to worship the Jewish God w/o becoming part of the club and only partaking in its worldly mission as stooges not machers (from Yiddish: fixer, maker, big shot).