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Donna Ruth's avatar

I feel like a ping pong ball in a long volley.

Like many, I have been reading about both sides of this war as offered by a number of considered experts / pundits.

In the end, I truly do not know. Why? It is not my immediate history. I do not live there; my ancestors did not live there. Few of us 8 billion citizens of the globe can truly understand what is happening there - and why. The more I read, the more confused I become. I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer - but not the dullest.

If we apply this to North America, say, specifically my country of birth and residence, Canada, I would raise eyebrows at those who would weigh in on our centuries-long aboriginal / First Nations / indigenous concerns. We cannot clear it up - no matter how hard we try - and it just gets worse. In the last few years, the whole world tsk-tsked at Canada on the issue of aboriginal "unmarked graves," when there is no evidence they were there. And yet everyone felt they had a knowledgeable opinion about this matter because of social media and the MSM. A tempest over nothing. And we still bear the censure.

How much more when the Middle East has been a tempest forever? We seem to think it is our business to opine, to weigh in, after we have done what we assume is adequate study. But the truth is this: WE. DON'T. LIVE. THERE. We cannot know centuries of history.

This is their war. It is inestimably sad. Each side feels righteous. Each side insists history is on their side. Each side puts forth plausible arguments. And long after we are under the sod, they will still be at each other's throats. We cannot stop enmity with hopes, good intentions and money. The root must be dug out - and only they can do it.

And it is only God who can heal our hearts ~ hearts that need to be repentant, forgiving, kind, loving - and that can only come from turning to the God who created us and this universe. He is the light in the darkness. Our prayers will help that light become bright beacons of hope.

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John's avatar

Here is all the hint any rational person should need: The uN supports Hsmas.

The UN always condemns Israel.

How anyone thinks it makes sense to imagine Israel is the root of all evil.ehen very obviously it is the UN I can't begin to fathom.

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SmithFS's avatar

That may be true however it is absolutely certain that the Hamas raid that started all this was a False Flag Operation or at the very least aided & abetted by the IDF, Shin Bet & Mossad.

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Lee HammMX's avatar

I think you're right. It is clear that much of the damage to Israeli fans and cars at the concert was done by the IDF, as Hamas doesn't have the air power or capability to torch cars etc. The 'friendly fire' totals are increasing with a new IDF admission every few days.

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Sandra ---'s avatar

Yes, of course. All you have to do is study the damage--Hamas does not have the weaponry to inflict such damage, but Israel does and I believe they are now even admitting it (and it's being covered in Israeli media/newspaper)

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Dec 21, 2023Edited
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SmithFS's avatar

You have statements from people who worked for IDF at that exact location, and Mossad and Shin Bet. NYT & Washington Post aren't the ones saying this:

https://twitter.com/VincentCrypt46/status/1716088629024461046?s=20

Message to the Israeli people - YouTube Shahid Bolsen claims USA is the enemy of Israel:

https://celiafarber.substack.com/p/the-case-for-inside-job-picks-up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBumTNZvVvk

https://rumble.com/v3rs664-the-israeli-deep-state-is-enabling-the-next-jewish-massacre.html

https://rumble.com/v3pkw5j-more-evidence-of-an-inside-job-david-sidman.html

https://www.frontline.news/post/israel-minister-drafts-law-to-arrest-citizens-who-harm-national-morale

We MUST think the 'unthinkable'! The future of the entire world may depend on that!!:

https://actionabletruth.substack.com/p/israel-hamas-war-truth

Rabbi Mizrachi: “It has to be an inside job”

https://twitter.com/SleepyLionz/status/1714195672935923935?s=20

CONFIRMED: Netanyahu ordered the Israeli military to STAND DOWN for 7 HOURS during the Hamas invasion.

https://twitter.com/LaurenWitzkeDE/status/1713344613409313003

The Case For "Inside Job" Picks Up: Did Israel Confiscate Guns At The Border Sept 1? A Former Soldier's Righteous Rage:

https://twitter.com/VincentCrypt46/status/1716088629024461046?s=20

Security experts blame Israel government for attack: ‘They had sources inside’. 'This one falls squarely on the Israelis':

https://frontline.news/post/security-experts-blame-israel-government-for-attack-they-had-sources-inside:

"...Security experts are blaming Israel’s government for Saturday’s invasion in which Muslim forces from Gaza massacred over 1,200 Israelis and kidnapped at least one hundred hostages.....[read on]"

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Sandra ---'s avatar

Great comment--thanks for the links!

Also, add this to your list- an Israeli and former Israeli studied some of the footage from 10/7 and found that there was at least one ISRAELI (Mossad?) speaking Hebrew and directing Hamas:

The 'Blue Shirts' of October 7 Some of the Hamas field Commanders on the day of the attack were NOT Palestinians or even Arabs & at least one was almost certainly Israeli!

MICHAEL GINSBURG https://actionabletruth.substack.com/p/blue-shirts-october-7

(Michael Ginsburg is a former Israeli)

Israel's Second 9/11 https://thegoodcitizen.live/p/october-7-2023

https://geopoliticsandempire.com/2023/12/06/was-al-aqsa-flood-false-flag/

https://vigilantcitizen.com/vigilantreport/the-october-7th-attacks-on-israel-were-allowed-to-happen-heres-why/

Israel's Oct 7 Footage Mysteriously Disappears

https://rumble.com/v3zvbre-israels-oct.-7-footage-mysteriously-disappears.html?mref=6zof&mrefc=4

Just Like 9/11? Suspicious Israeli Stock Market Activity Hints at Foreknowledge of October 7 Attack

https://www.mintpressnews.com/just-like-9-11-israeli-stock-market-trends-hint-at-foreknowledge-of-operation-al-aqsa-flood/286407/

****

I also follow Ryan @ The Last American Vagabond regularly and he says that some of the witnesses from 10/7 have been "involuntarily committed"- Ryan thinks this is to keep them from talking about what they saw.

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Dec 21, 2023Edited
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Dr.Who's avatar

💯 correct...IF history started on Oct 7th.

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Dec 21, 2023
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John's avatar

Yes, I see your point, but the difference can only be seen in contrast because it is only partial.

They still repeatedly trumpet 20K innocent civilian deaths, even though there is no independent verification and Hamss lies perpetually.

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Dec 22, 2023Edited
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Throgmorton's avatar

I think that for those leftists who are blind to the utter evil of Hamas and see no good in Israel, the Palestinian cause is a kind of a pornographic fetish object that they use to whip themselves into a sweaty lather of frenzied self-righteousness. Like a sexual perversion, it is visceral and anti-rational, as you can see by the rage it triggers in them when they are challenged.

It is non-verbal, even though it may trigger a stream of verbiage. It is non-rational, even if they adduce a pile of apparent facts and arguments to support their case, and it is amoral, because it is based on feelings, not judgments of right and wrong.

Because it is a bizarre and mindless psychological kink, it wouldn't occur to them to infer from this that they actually hate Jews or support Islamism, though they can easily be manipulated into giving material support to those noxious causes.

Perhaps they can be brought back from the brink, but it won't be achieved by argument or rebuke, because their position is sub-rational and instinct driven, like the fight-or-flight instinct. Maybe that is the key to reaching them.

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Dec 21, 2023Edited
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Linda O's avatar

"The left has always supported Islam.'"

'Liberals' supported the Islamofascist Takfiri proxies paid by Nato and the Gulf States to destroy Libya and the Syrian Arab Republic under the guise of liberating those countries.

The left did not.

'Liberals' support The Muslim Brotherhood.

The left does not.

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Dec 21, 2023
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Linda O's avatar

Never heard of him.

Sounds like you conveniently ignore the fact that most radical elements of Islam have been nurtured by Western intelligence agencies - including Mossad.

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Dec 21, 2023Edited
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John's avatar

Yes, that too is a very good point.

Another is the reality that they never owned the land or held soverignty.

Land records show 3 percent resident Arab land ownership.

Most of the land was foreign "owned" in Israel's absence, with tenant farmers working the land.

The myth of Israel "stealing Fakestinian land "

Is just another lie of the bigger lie that has kept this conflict going for 75 years.

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Syd (is not my real name)'s avatar

“In the end, I truly do not know.”

In the beginning, it would be informative for you to read the easily-accessible history of the Zionist movement in North America, following WW2. Trace it to the Middle-East via France, Britain, and AJ Balfour: a coup was committed against Palestinians on their native soil by all of them, and the Zionists have then and since vowed to obliterate Palestine from the planet. This is no BS ‘war’, this is a rock-throwing, trapped, misbegotten people resisting their ultimate GENOCIDE under the EYES OF THE ‘CIVILIZED’ WAR-MONGERING SCUM OF THE ‘FREE WORLD’.

Inform yourself and your children, PLEASE.

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Donna Ruth's avatar

Thank you for that, Syd.

Again, like many, I have read or watched so much about the two sides, each chunk of apologetics claiming true insider history and knowledge … each earnest, very persuasive and coloured by a side’s insistent, “believe-me!” arguments. What are we to think thousands of miles away?

In the end, two things:

1) North America and Europe have been dragged into this financially, and more importantly, emotionally, creating deep division and anger in our institutions, on the streets, and more. Will blood be shed here? What is the sense in this?

2) If a middle-east negotiation or extended cease-fire occurs, how long will it last? Months? Years? Seventy-plus years of the more recent history have shown there are times of less aggression, but the anger, mistrust, and deep hatred never go away and inevitably resurface to renewed warfare. No rallies, street demonstrations, rhetoric, and divisions thousands of miles away will change anything. The drums of pure hatred in this area keep banging on. I reiterate that only they can resolve it - and, sadly, it seems unlikely. A century from now will our descendants be looking at the same middle-east headlines?

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Syd (is not my real name)'s avatar

No, likely not … I understand there are to be some ..ahem.. biblical changes coming.😬

Seriously, your point is valid, of course: the dog chasing his tail… Palestine and the Zionists usurpation of the land is a man-made universal quandary, appropriated by evil-doers for selfish gain, humans be damned. Zionism is not to be equated with Jews like Hamas is not to be equated with Palestinians - but Zionist propaganda does exactly that, they’re sneaky that way.

‘They’ can’t resolve it - because they didn’t create it. This rot is so deep, a different kind of cauterization must happen…beyond anything I can imagine..but it must happen.

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Linda O's avatar

Without the limitless financial support of the USA, Israel would be a contained area of kibbutz rather than a nuclear power hellbent on destroying the neighbourhood.

It's been said before -and people are saying it en masse again: the dominant bloodline running Israel are not by definition 'semitic'.

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MrsSmithSaysSo's avatar

This war - like it or not - is also the world's war in several aspects: Terrorism, international shipping routes, and energy production. Economically at stake are untapped gas fields in Gaza, the Suez Canal, and the proposed Ben Gurion Canal in Israel.

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Donna Ruth's avatar

And been that way for 75 years now.

Always that sword dangling over our heads.

So - shipping routes are altered. Goods will cost more. So be it.

It’s always about the monnn-eeeey, the progress … the big sky-is-falling, “What if???!!”

It feels like we have been hostages in this intractable drama forever - and will continue to be so for generations to come. We must find end runs.

They must solve their problems.

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Rosalind McGill's avatar

Thanks Cecelia!

I stopped listening to Shapiro when the Israeli/ Gaza conflict began.

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FREED0ML0VER's avatar

I stopped when I discovered he was for forced vaccinations, long before covid.

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Yvette Worrall's avatar

Likewise and ditto for Murray and Peterson. Morgan strikes me as the least intelligent of the bunch. Immune to both imagination and logic.

I 'm enjoying Lowkey.

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Jo Waller's avatar

Yes, me too. I have always found integrity very attractive and it doesn't hurt if, like Lowkey, it comes with muscles.

I think Piers Moron is in fact very intelligent, he's just playing the game.

It's interesting how the anti-woke Murray (a direct of the FSU) and vegan hating JP (of pharma and animal ag industry funded ARC and Daily Wire) have revealed themselves as total Zionazi heartless bastards.

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Michael Gomel's avatar

Someone needs to tell Karen Kingston and a few aNaomi Wolfe and any others who are hawking Wellness Company that a deep dive by Boddhisatva Betty as seen from Dr. Christine Northrop on telegram shows the Monster money behind that company. Only paid can comment on some Substack

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ConcernedGrammy's avatar

Here's some interesting info from 2019. I can't imagine what their budget is now.

Inside Israel’s million dollar troll army

https://electronicintifada.net/content/inside-israels-million-dollar-troll-army/27566

A global influence campaign funded by the Israeli government had a $1.1 million budget last year, a document obtained by The Electronic Intifada shows.

Act.IL says it has offices in three countries and an online army of more than 15,000.

Main PDF file exposing all global technocratic cabal links:

The German Club of Clear Words takes a deep dive into the network of individuals and organizations responsible for the COVID scam

https://clubderklarenworte.de/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Netzwerkanalyse-Corona-Komplex.pdf

Lots of dots connected in this document.

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Dec 22, 2023Edited
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ConcernedGrammy's avatar

Yeah, everyone in Israeli govt is totally innocent and on the up and up, just like the US. Got it. You do know that Bibi made 90% of Isrealis get jabbed multiple times and covered up the bad data, right? He made a deal with Pfizer to give them all of those people's medical data, he used them all as lab rats. He's a WEFfer, if ya haven't caught on. I get my info from many sources, unlike you, who apparently WANT to stay asleep and believe that SUDDENLY the MSM is telling you the truth!

That explains everything. 🙄

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Dec 22, 2023
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ConcernedGrammy's avatar

Oh, yeah, completely unrelated!🤣 LOL! As was the Proxy war in Ukraine, the race and gender wars and everything else that's happened in the last 3 yrs? The way Netanyahu acted during covid revealed precisely which side he's on. You're not paying very close attention and it shows.

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rohjo's avatar

A silver lining in the very dark cloud of genocide in Gaza is that its political demarcation sheds light on who's who and what's what.

Here's an antidote to Zionist rhetoric (Kim Iversen w. Shiva Ayyadurai): https://rumble.com/v3s3yug-october-27-2023.html

Michael Parenti, progressive historian, once observed that of course there's a conspiracy--the conspiracy of self-interest.

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Howard's avatar

Thanks. Not surprised. Throw in Trump, DeSantis, Musk, RFK Jr., Jordan Peterson, and other North American "freedom fighters oppressed by wokesterism." Maybe they could all hop on a Musk plane for a group honorary bar mitzvah in Jerusalem, or at the border of Gaza. Douglas Murray and Sean Hannity could cover it.

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Linda O's avatar

Team Humanity: Alex Jones, Elon Musk and Andrew Tate.

We're Doomed.

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Linda O's avatar

Two sides of the same coin: RFK Jr and Trump - both committed Z'ists. Apparently Kennedy even gave the thumbs up for his grandson who has "fought in Ukraine" i.e he was acting as a mercenary.

Keep an eye on the alt media grifters -on all sides- who continue to promote and cross-promote either of these shills.

As for 'making a list', it has been suggested that many alt media platforms are allowed to exist because they serve one primary purpose: so that the Israeli intelligence apparatus can identify their enemies.

Bristol University Professor David Miller was sacked in 2021 for saying Israel wants to "impose [its] will all over the world". He then undertook a study to wit: people of Jewish descent are vastly overrepresented in every profession of power and influence across the board in the UK. Thus they do not suffer 'oppression'.

Imo the myth of Meritocracy was created to hide obvious Nepotism that benefits this type of unfair advantage and leverage. "They" are simply harder working and more intelligent than the rest of humanity. To suggest otherwise gets you banned. In the future it may get you arrested.

The weaponisation of speech goes back a long way.

Professor Greg Philo of the Glasgow University Media Group - author of More Bad News from Israel which looks at the media coverage of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

Philo recalled a meeting with one BBC editor after publication of his book. The editor said: We wait in fear for the telephone call from the Israelis.

SEE: Greg Philo - 'More Bad News from Israel' - SOAS, 19.5.11

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Lee HammMX's avatar

I believe the assessments of Norman Finkelstein, Miko Peled and Lowkey. Piers Morgan not so much.

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Monsieur Pierrey's avatar

Thanks for that. I like Murray's rhetoric, but I don't disagree with this report's assessments. It's almost as if we're all flawed and can only be trusted so far…

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zdb's avatar

thank you

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zdb's avatar

thank you

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David Schmitt's avatar

Dear Miss Webber, referring to your statements, "Those possessing 'great power' only use rhetoric and either feel powerless, as you, or they are insincere," and "I bet you can come up with some good ideas, if you get past the "what can one little person like me do," I can only say that I neither believe that I am insincere nor do I believe that I am powerless.

What ever gave you the idea that I feel powerless?

Instead, I was prompting YOU to provide some "to do" ideas along with your plaintiff appeal.

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Chris's avatar

I had not realized Douglas Murray was so involved in all of this.

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Joe Van Steenbergen's avatar

Doesn't get much clearer than this; many thanks. We live in unbelievable times.

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Freedom Fox's avatar

The fallacy of team politics, group identities, tribalism.

It's the most seductive mental trap of all. Because its appeal is directly to survival instincts. For safety one must be with a tribe. Solitary humans are easy prey for predators, both four- and two-legged kinds.

So we identify with a tribe, with a group, with a team to feel safer, protected. With the added benefit of feeling good about improvements to the tribe, group, team.

No man is an island, to be sure. And to fully actualize and realize our full potential that God wants us to achieve man requires strong relationships with others, family, community. It's hard-wired. So much so that even in things as trivial as sports fights and violence will sometimes erupt in the stands, away from the field, between supporters of opposing teams. The team merchandising for fans makes more money for team owners than the contests themselves. The pull to team, group, tribal identity is that strong.

So when we find others who sound like they are on our political "team" that seems to share our ideas, beliefs, values we're tempted to take them in as our own tribe. And, like most families, while there are some facets of them we discover we don't like we tend to overlook those unflattering aspects of them, downplay them, offer up "not my little Johnny" defenses.

And this is where the two-legged predators lurk. After gaining confidence of the prey, of the mark, the con-men strike. The best are good enough to strike multiple times before the mark, the prey even notices they've been struck, taken, injured, their minds being the most valuable quarry to the predator.

It truly is information war. Our national defense agencies have declared our minds, the insides of them, our ideas of self and relation to the world, understanding of it as a part of the "cognitive infrastructure" of the nation. Theirs. Not yours. They've literally, openly declared war on our minds, seeking to not only occupy them, but to colonize and claim as their own. And they will, they have deployed information warfare special operators skilled in psychological manipulation, deception and subterfuge against us all.

About thirty-percent of the population is resistant to the population-wide attacks. Able to preserve their cognitive functions from mass assaults. The adversary, our own government actors who have declared war on We, The People, knows this. And deploys battalions of specially trained confidence artists. Like many you list. And many others most of us still wouldn't suspect. And these special operators will corral large percentage of the initial thirty-percent who resist the mass attack. Perhaps a third.

What about the remaining free thinkers? Each successive round of attacks become more and more specialized to each type of resistor. The anti-authoritarians, the skeptics, the academic free-thinkers, etc. Informed of the different personality archetypes, custom designing appeals. In hopes of paring down the percentage of resistant to a level that is manageable either through incarceration of death.

We have all been given a wondrous gift from God, Almighty, to protect ourselves from these assaults. The gift of discernment. We must truly question everything we think we know, following the counsel of Rene Descartes. Even from friends, allies, our own groups we identify with, teams we see ourselves on, tribes we feel a part of. Especially question information from our own "side." It is from our own side that we are most vulnerable, our defenses lowered, where those seeking to control our minds lurk in our confidence.

We mustn't get jaded, avoid connection in fear of being taken in by sophisticated military-grade con artists; we need human connection. We truly are optimal when in a community that fortifies itself and others from external threats by improving the mental health and bonds that build resilience. But we must always ask ourselves if something feels right, we must ask God to help us discern. And we must listen to what he says to each of us as individuals without letting our rationalizing and justifying "my team" notions lead us away from God's voice.

There's good and bad in all man. We take the good, leave the bad. The con artists are only successful if we let them shape our ideas, thoughts and understandings in ways we don't naturally come to on our own, as God empowers us to individually. We are higher eternal souls than lemmings. And mustn't act like one.

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