That's a very good point. Talking about sacred things in direct language (vs. art) is very strange to the Russian senses. The sacred is the sacred, it is felt, it is praised via art, but discussing it in a mundane way is very weird!!
Shall never forget Phillipe Hirshorn (genius ,Latvian,dissident), top ten violinist for most of his life ,with tears in his eyes , telling me he wishes to know what it means to have his sins forgiven ''just before he dies'' . 20 years before he actually did .
He tried to convince me he considered himself a washer of his students' feet . To my total utter incredulity
Or walking past a dutch evangelical group singing in the labyrinthic Utrecht train station saying look - ''they dont truly believe what they say ''
I think the western definition of spiritual vs sacred - mostly the sacred emperor issue , has transited beyond reason ,the first transhumanism .
Forced by Stalin. Trapped in your backpack. My goodness, Celia, that's a black and white photo. Don't you think it's time the poor guy was set free?
Ok, you said it was humorous. I'd consider it a kindness if you didn't have me shot at dawn for being corny. Stalin would do that, and I'm counting on you to be better. I've committed no crime. And you yourself admitted to stealing a half hour.
James, I felt the timing was humorous. Placing last, with deadpan: "I was talking to Stalin." It made me laugh. Many out loud laugh moments for me in this book actually.
I learned a lot about academia when a music professor scolded me in front of the class about how they had debunked Testimony. (This was just before his family and friends came out in support of it.) I believe it's because he talked about meaning in music, which turns out was NOT PERMITTED in that particular institution. Come to find out, the CIA was behind the avant-garde all along, which had been public knowledge for over a decade at that time. But they still got away with forcing it on students, perhaps even to this day. Imagine paying to be disinformed and unprepared for a career in music composition. No meaning, no feeling, yet somehow it was considered art, and composition students had no choice. Stupid me wrote about meaning in music for my grad recital's extended program notes, and this woman almost had a coronary trying to keep me from graduating. I had to re-write everything.
It could also be that they didn't want people to understand totalitarianism. Shostakovich was my Orwell. Rabid communists also claim to have debunked Testimony.
Perhaps Shostakovich was afraid that Stalin was looking for inspiration about how to kill with more majestic flare. Find that secret to inspiration. The better to fight the evil forces that tortured his paranoid brain. You know, make the Gulags and the Great Terror seem more inspired, poetic, majestic ... Maybe Stalin wanted to be remembered in a more Noble light and was looking for the secrets of the greats. After all, the Gulags were a bit dreary. A little Shostakovich to break the cold, shorten the long dreary icy nights and lighten the howl of the Siberian wind would have done wonders to lighten the mood for those whose fate was predetermined.
Stalin was a musical traditionalist, on the corny side, and he usually got what he wanted. Nothing to sneeze at, to tell the truth: Isaac Dunayevsky (Jewish), managed to produce many a memorable tune to Stalin´s pleasure, and I cannot help it but hum along whenever I hear one. Frankly, it would be much more difficult to do so while listening to Shostakovitch. Fairy tales and make-believe, including musical, always beat reality, do they not? Perhaps because there is more satisfaction in the former.
Gide chptr 5 comes close ,but does not lay musical foundations attributable to either Shostakovitch ,or Phillipe Hirshorn - the latter of which was simply humble enough to want a definitive discussion on Mozart ,and we missed it .
Incidentally, Dunayevsky used to be called the Red Mozart in USSR. In his early youth, he had studied with the virtuoso violinist Iosif Ahron in Kharkov.
As for musical tastes of Uncle Joe, the British playwright David Pownell wrote an intriguing piece with the title Stalin´s Master Class. It ran in London some time in the 1980s, if memory serves right.
Gide's point of entoombed motive remains to this day . Oppositional-ism is a real western motivation - but the actual ru /slav humility of truly creating remains an astonishing enigma .
My guess is there's an iterative logic by which the man-made universe articulates, using the statistical methods employed by astronomers since Kepler, which a guy like Shostakovich would observe in the mannerisms of strangers walking up to him apparently quizzical about the source of inspiration, while themselves wearing the whole armor of God [Eph. 6:11] against rabbit holes of doubt and query and things being up in the air [Eph. 6: 2, 12]. It's when they start joking and looking for fun that you got to watch out.
Are you familiar with David Lynch’s book “Catching the Big Fish” about Creativity and Consciousness? Are you going to go into any detail about why this composer did not like to talk about Inspiration? My guess relative to the incident with Stalin is that he got nervous that if he strayed into any ideas about Divinity or the “Spiritual Dimension” he might be shot as a “heretic” relative to Stalin’s official Marxist -Communist Atheism? (If that was indeed the official stance everyone was supposed to believe in those days, I don’t really know.)
I'm not. I'd like to read that. I struggle so with time, it seems times has sped up. I get so little done and always lag behind, by years. I desperately wish I had more time to read. I agree with your assessment.
Key is if Mozart is truly not of scatalogical interest to Putins lost empire (soon to be regained?)
Mozart wrote 22 scatologic letters ,to 22 close acquaintences .
Putin is continuing the tradition .
How can that inspire anybody ?
If the renaissence never really happened to russia - how european could Ukraine ever be ?
It didnt ,so they arent .
Soloviev has plenty to say on that subject ,unsurprisingly alliterative , on the subject of faith and war - especially as it pertains to hellenism and its historical sovietisation .
Shostokovitch had several frustrated ambitions - the most enduring - his inability - like Shakespeare ( whoever she was) - to eluct mirthfully .
Deeply impressed you carry such a tome ,CF and actually use it as anything other than a beermat .
Very nice of you ,Celia , to highlight the inspiration quote .
Greek inhalation of volcanic gasses created an out of body experience for sybilline 'visionary'activity
I'm sure that bothered Shostakovitch .
In fact Christology ,the study of how inspired His Passion and ressurection can be ultimately understood - has been pulled in a never ending tug of war between two schools of inspiration -Antoichene ( the reality of becoming so truly man He is divine essentially Arianism eventually )
verses Alexandrianism ( He only appeared to be man- he was in fact a partially physicalized Spirit )
And the russians historically never saw much of that ,hence the moot issue of 'divine inspiration '
much lauded by the closeted Handel , during Messiah composition .
Scariest thing I ever saw concerning inspiration is the belief that anything other than hard work ,dry craftmanship is necessary for the sculpturing of a sonic monument .
Have not read Sholtakovich, but now will, thanks to you.
What is find so interesting in the excerpt you posted Celia is the reference to the writer speaking to a Russian leader. That actually was common, as they, the big bosses, took great interest, ie. keeping track of, their composers and writers. Puskin had the audicity to perch on the edge of the Zhar's desk when being 'intervewed.'
That's a very good point. Talking about sacred things in direct language (vs. art) is very strange to the Russian senses. The sacred is the sacred, it is felt, it is praised via art, but discussing it in a mundane way is very weird!!
Shall never forget Phillipe Hirshorn (genius ,Latvian,dissident), top ten violinist for most of his life ,with tears in his eyes , telling me he wishes to know what it means to have his sins forgiven ''just before he dies'' . 20 years before he actually did .
He tried to convince me he considered himself a washer of his students' feet . To my total utter incredulity
Or walking past a dutch evangelical group singing in the labyrinthic Utrecht train station saying look - ''they dont truly believe what they say ''
I think the western definition of spiritual vs sacred - mostly the sacred emperor issue , has transited beyond reason ,the first transhumanism .
Forced by Stalin. Trapped in your backpack. My goodness, Celia, that's a black and white photo. Don't you think it's time the poor guy was set free?
Ok, you said it was humorous. I'd consider it a kindness if you didn't have me shot at dawn for being corny. Stalin would do that, and I'm counting on you to be better. I've committed no crime. And you yourself admitted to stealing a half hour.
James, I felt the timing was humorous. Placing last, with deadpan: "I was talking to Stalin." It made me laugh. Many out loud laugh moments for me in this book actually.
Wow.
It's very Russian: a bit of self-deprecation to distract attention from an intense desire to survive.
exactamente
I learned a lot about academia when a music professor scolded me in front of the class about how they had debunked Testimony. (This was just before his family and friends came out in support of it.) I believe it's because he talked about meaning in music, which turns out was NOT PERMITTED in that particular institution. Come to find out, the CIA was behind the avant-garde all along, which had been public knowledge for over a decade at that time. But they still got away with forcing it on students, perhaps even to this day. Imagine paying to be disinformed and unprepared for a career in music composition. No meaning, no feeling, yet somehow it was considered art, and composition students had no choice. Stupid me wrote about meaning in music for my grad recital's extended program notes, and this woman almost had a coronary trying to keep me from graduating. I had to re-write everything.
It could also be that they didn't want people to understand totalitarianism. Shostakovich was my Orwell. Rabid communists also claim to have debunked Testimony.
I guess it's all the same thing.
Alban Berg ,which Hirshorn mentored for me - started 12 tone row - but schoenberg saw it in his student's AB scores first .
CIA have not the cojones to create anything . Neither does Satan
Ex Nihilo means all creation echoes the living Word ,Christ .
If co creation ex nihilo exists for creatures ,there is no God .
Perhaps Shostakovich was afraid that Stalin was looking for inspiration about how to kill with more majestic flare. Find that secret to inspiration. The better to fight the evil forces that tortured his paranoid brain. You know, make the Gulags and the Great Terror seem more inspired, poetic, majestic ... Maybe Stalin wanted to be remembered in a more Noble light and was looking for the secrets of the greats. After all, the Gulags were a bit dreary. A little Shostakovich to break the cold, shorten the long dreary icy nights and lighten the howl of the Siberian wind would have done wonders to lighten the mood for those whose fate was predetermined.
Stalin was a musical traditionalist, on the corny side, and he usually got what he wanted. Nothing to sneeze at, to tell the truth: Isaac Dunayevsky (Jewish), managed to produce many a memorable tune to Stalin´s pleasure, and I cannot help it but hum along whenever I hear one. Frankly, it would be much more difficult to do so while listening to Shostakovitch. Fairy tales and make-believe, including musical, always beat reality, do they not? Perhaps because there is more satisfaction in the former.
A link would be less blattoide .
Read Gide, Back from the USSR; Chapter V is your specific link, but the whole pamphlet is topical.
I meant link to materials on Isaac Dunayevsky - who lacked the perspective , breadth of Gide .
https://youtu.be/jNgptGPU_bM --is ballet music showcased .Beats the hell out of Gilbert & Sullivan .
Gide chptr 5 comes close ,but does not lay musical foundations attributable to either Shostakovitch ,or Phillipe Hirshorn - the latter of which was simply humble enough to want a definitive discussion on Mozart ,and we missed it .
Incidentally, Dunayevsky used to be called the Red Mozart in USSR. In his early youth, he had studied with the virtuoso violinist Iosif Ahron in Kharkov.
As for musical tastes of Uncle Joe, the British playwright David Pownell wrote an intriguing piece with the title Stalin´s Master Class. It ran in London some time in the 1980s, if memory serves right.
Gide's point of entoombed motive remains to this day . Oppositional-ism is a real western motivation - but the actual ru /slav humility of truly creating remains an astonishing enigma .
My guess is there's an iterative logic by which the man-made universe articulates, using the statistical methods employed by astronomers since Kepler, which a guy like Shostakovich would observe in the mannerisms of strangers walking up to him apparently quizzical about the source of inspiration, while themselves wearing the whole armor of God [Eph. 6:11] against rabbit holes of doubt and query and things being up in the air [Eph. 6: 2, 12]. It's when they start joking and looking for fun that you got to watch out.
Super, look forward to it. I need to hear more Shostakovitch. I’m mired in the fifth sympthony.
Are you familiar with David Lynch’s book “Catching the Big Fish” about Creativity and Consciousness? Are you going to go into any detail about why this composer did not like to talk about Inspiration? My guess relative to the incident with Stalin is that he got nervous that if he strayed into any ideas about Divinity or the “Spiritual Dimension” he might be shot as a “heretic” relative to Stalin’s official Marxist -Communist Atheism? (If that was indeed the official stance everyone was supposed to believe in those days, I don’t really know.)
I'm not. I'd like to read that. I struggle so with time, it seems times has sped up. I get so little done and always lag behind, by years. I desperately wish I had more time to read. I agree with your assessment.
for the elect those days shall be shortened ;)
Would an hour a day, dedicated only to reading, be enough?
Groovy! Well, 😎🤷🏻🤷🏽🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
That is very interesting. Thank you Celia:)
Just had a flashback to the Konchalovsky film “The Inner Circle” - Tom Hulce plays Stalin’s projectionist. Great pic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Inner_Circle_(1991_film)
"Let poets confide such reminiscencies to a trusting public ;its all lies anyway ,and anyway I am not a poet ."
(Its wannabe poets that are the problem ,
especially in the paragimattic assertionism)
Key is if Mozart is truly not of scatalogical interest to Putins lost empire (soon to be regained?)
Mozart wrote 22 scatologic letters ,to 22 close acquaintences .
Putin is continuing the tradition .
How can that inspire anybody ?
If the renaissence never really happened to russia - how european could Ukraine ever be ?
It didnt ,so they arent .
Soloviev has plenty to say on that subject ,unsurprisingly alliterative , on the subject of faith and war - especially as it pertains to hellenism and its historical sovietisation .
Shostokovitch had several frustrated ambitions - the most enduring - his inability - like Shakespeare ( whoever she was) - to eluct mirthfully .
Deeply impressed you carry such a tome ,CF and actually use it as anything other than a beermat .
Very nice of you ,Celia , to highlight the inspiration quote .
Greek inhalation of volcanic gasses created an out of body experience for sybilline 'visionary'activity
I'm sure that bothered Shostakovitch .
In fact Christology ,the study of how inspired His Passion and ressurection can be ultimately understood - has been pulled in a never ending tug of war between two schools of inspiration -Antoichene ( the reality of becoming so truly man He is divine essentially Arianism eventually )
verses Alexandrianism ( He only appeared to be man- he was in fact a partially physicalized Spirit )
And the russians historically never saw much of that ,hence the moot issue of 'divine inspiration '
much lauded by the closeted Handel , during Messiah composition .
Scariest thing I ever saw concerning inspiration is the belief that anything other than hard work ,dry craftmanship is necessary for the sculpturing of a sonic monument .
shostakovich is hilarious (ok, most of it is gallows humor)
when times were especially hard he did film scores and cartoon scores. this is shostakovich?!? uh huh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijOO94XOsb8
Thanks! Ordered the book, and will listen to his music until it arrives: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4D14bmfCxVWG8oUiAiOJeuN8s0-DdIgM
bit longer to understand it than that surely?
Have not read Sholtakovich, but now will, thanks to you.
What is find so interesting in the excerpt you posted Celia is the reference to the writer speaking to a Russian leader. That actually was common, as they, the big bosses, took great interest, ie. keeping track of, their composers and writers. Puskin had the audicity to perch on the edge of the Zhar's desk when being 'intervewed.'