Dec 18, 2021·edited Dec 18, 2021Liked by Celia Farber
John 6:
[37] ALL that the Father giveth me SHALL COME to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
[38] For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
[39] And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I SHOULD LOSE NOTHING, but should raise it up again at the last day.
[40] And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
[41] The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
[42] And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
[43] Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
[44] No man can come to me, EXCEPT THE FATHER which hath sent me DRAW HIM: and I will raise him up at the last day.
[45] It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. EVERY MAN therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
You meant to write "misled" (past tense) but you spelled it "mislead" — a common error. Led is a verb, past tense. Lead is a verb, present tense, also a metal.
Now as to taking your word over the word of scripture, I'm surprised/not surprised that you'd expect me to do that. If you were to tell me about Buddha and his Nirvana, I would listen more politely. But the authority on the Christian religion is the bible.
According to that, Jesus was saying, in this passage (Luke 12)
"[1] In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.
[2] For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.
[3] Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.
[4] And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
[5] But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear:
**** Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. ****
[6] Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?
[7] But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.
[8] Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:
[9] But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.
[10] And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.
[11] And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:
[12] For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say."
With all due respect, I will receive religious teaching from the authority.
Yes — as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness. Jesus was speaking of his crucifixion.
John 3:14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes will have eternal life in Him. 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life."
Here he's referring to Numbers 21:
4 Then they set out from Mount Hor by the way of the Red Sea, to go around the land of Edom; and the people became impatient because of the journey. 5 So the people spoke against God and Moses: “Why have you brought us up from Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no food and no water, and we are disgusted with this miserable food.” [i.e., the manna]
The Bronze Serpent
6 Then the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people and they bit the people, so that many people of Israel died. 7 So the people came to Moses and said, “We have sinned, because we have spoken against the Lord and against you; intercede with the Lord, that He will remove the serpents from us.” And Moses interceded for the people. 8 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and put it on a flag pole; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, and looks at it, will live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze serpent and put it on the flag pole; and it came about, that if a serpent bit someone, and he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived.
So the brazen serpent on the pole was, as we say, a "type" of Christ, that is, a foreshadowing.
Some four or five hundred years later, the people of Judah were still corrupt and idolatrous, worshipping idols made by hand in groves on the hilltops. They also burned incense to the old brazen serpent, which the priests had kept all that time.
II Kings 18: referring to King Hezekiah —
4 He removed the high places and smashed the memorial stones to pieces, and cut down the Asherah [idols carved from trees]. He also crushed to pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the sons of Israel had been burning incense to it; and it was called Nehushtan [that is, a "thing of brass"]. 5 He trusted in the Lord, the God of Israel; and after him there was no one like him among all the kings of Judah, nor among those who came before him. 6 For he clung to the Lord; he did not desist from following Him, but kept His commandments, which the Lord had commanded Moses. 7 And the Lord was with him; wherever he went he was successful.
But the quote you mention must be seen in this wider context:
John 12:23 “But Jesus answered them by saying, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24 Truly, truly I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. 25 The one who loves his life loses it, and the one who hates his life in this world will keep it to eternal life. 26 If anyone serves Me, he must follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also; if anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him.
Now My soul has become troubled; and what am I to say? ‘Father, save Me from this hour’? But for this purpose I came to this hour. 28 Father, glorify Your name.” Then a voice came out of heaven: “I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.” 29 So the crowd who stood by and heard it were saying that it had thundered; others were saying, “An angel has spoken to Him!” 30 Jesus responded and said, “This voice has not come for My sake, but for yours. 31 Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. 32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.” 33 Now He was saying this to indicate what kind of death He was going to die.
ἑλκύσω (helkuso) is indeed a strong expression, used for dragging ships out of the water, oxen pulling plows.
But no single verse can be called upon to stand on its own. We can be confident that Jesus was not speaking Greek to those people. Almost certainly it would have been Aramaic, a close cousin of Hebrew, could be called a dialect maybe. So we don't know what exact shades of meaning there might have been.
In any case you have to remember the dozens of times and ways that He said, "Many are called, but few are chosen."
The best example is probably,
[13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Strait - like the Bering Strait, means a narrow, a tight squeeze. "Strict" is another form of the word.
So I'd say, the best way to interpret that is, all are drawn, but most will not surrender to the call, but are also drawn to earthly attractions, which will overpower the saving grace of God, and pull these many down to the Second Death.
In my first comment I quoted, "all that the Father hath given me shall come to me", so there is a sense of predestination, which is repeated in the book of the Revelation.
But nevertheless, EVERYONE has the opportunity, and will never be able to say to the Great Judge on That Day, "You never have me a chance", because He will then "replay the tape" to use a modern idiom, of the moment that they decided not to accept the offer, the price being deemed too high, refusing to turn away from this or that sin.
[13] When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
[14] And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
[15] He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
[16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
[17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
[18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
[19] And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Moreover, who is any man that thinks he can deny God the right to do whatever He will? God is by definition true and righteous altogether. His ways are past finding out.
If we listen with the ears of our flesh, we will hear our own frail wisdom.
But when we listen with the ears of our spirit, when we are attuned to His Spirit, we hear what is real and Eternal.
As someone born Jewish who walked away while in college I am going through a similar realization about the ugliness that has surrounded “the chosen people”. When we see the way religion can be used for deception and power mongering, it’s rather striking. I’ve been learning about the Khazarian mafia and its roots in the Ashkenazic Jewish community that produced the Rothschilds, their central banks and all of the Zionists who were behind the Russian Revolution as well as financing both sides in every war and act of terror that is now so overwhelming. And to watch how Bibi one of their top modern henchmen made a deal with the devil himself Pfizer turns my stomach inside out.
I learned the other night at a dinner with friends, about the history of some of this. Late to it. So much to process. Loaded and freighted with the usual guilt trips but as time permits, we must study deep ancient history if we are to grasp the first thing about the present.
https://www.redpilldocumentaries.com/fallofthecabal/ - Celia - This is a great series. The sequel goes into depth about how these evil monsters evolved. We are truly living in the Twilight Zone. I can see where Hollywood got material for their supervillains that we thought only existed in movies.
Despite Catholic grade and high schools. I never heard of Bella Dodd until roughly 3 years ago. It is a true measure of insanity that her writing was and is not required reading from 1st grade on in these schools. (Whittaker Chambers would be another [more prolific] author to be studied EARLY. ) The Church - and I believe other religious institutions - have been targets of well-funded, systematic corruption going back at least 100 years. Dodd infiltrated 1100 Communist priests into the Church during FDR's era. In 2016, the number of priests in the US was around 37,000. She said she was well paid for her efforts by "Global financiers". Assemble the usual suspects.
I have to believe that Dodd was also instrumental in the formation of the National Lawyers Guild, established during the 1930s from the efforts of CommunismUSA and Communism International. Like Dodd said in the 1950s: they use nice sounding labels, like "Liberal", "Progressive" or "Democracy" to hide their real intentions, which we are blatantly seeing today. It was an organization of communist attorneys, judges, pols, paralegals, yadda yada yada. Today there are chapters in every state, but relatively few people have heard of them. They term themselves "Progressive", as in the Congressional Progressive Caucus. My belief is that primarily this organization and its allies have been responsible for the perversion and corruption established in our justice system over the past several decades.
FWIW - once they had control of the seminaries, only leftist students were admitted for study. They sought out those willing to admit to being homosexual.
John 6:
[37] ALL that the Father giveth me SHALL COME to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
[38] For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
[39] And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I SHOULD LOSE NOTHING, but should raise it up again at the last day.
[40] And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
[41] The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
[42] And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
[43] Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
[44] No man can come to me, EXCEPT THE FATHER which hath sent me DRAW HIM: and I will raise him up at the last day.
[45] It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. EVERY MAN therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
You meant to write "misled" (past tense) but you spelled it "mislead" — a common error. Led is a verb, past tense. Lead is a verb, present tense, also a metal.
Now as to taking your word over the word of scripture, I'm surprised/not surprised that you'd expect me to do that. If you were to tell me about Buddha and his Nirvana, I would listen more politely. But the authority on the Christian religion is the bible.
According to that, Jesus was saying, in this passage (Luke 12)
"[1] In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.
[2] For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.
[3] Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.
[4] And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
[5] But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear:
**** Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. ****
[6] Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?
[7] But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.
[8] Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:
[9] But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.
[10] And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.
[11] And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:
[12] For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say."
With all due respect, I will receive religious teaching from the authority.
So, you're hearing voices? But how do you know which is genuine?
But if you "hear" something that directly contradicts the scripture, then, "yer on yer own, buddy".
You spelled it right, but you judged me wrong. Like a son who has become a drunkard despising his father's tearful warning of the danger he faces.
Listen to Mose —"Fool's Paradise"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6FIta7L8N8
I've said all I'm going to say. Don't waste words trying to get me to delete portions of scripture. <smh!>
Yes — as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness. Jesus was speaking of his crucifixion.
John 3:14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes will have eternal life in Him. 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life."
Here he's referring to Numbers 21:
4 Then they set out from Mount Hor by the way of the Red Sea, to go around the land of Edom; and the people became impatient because of the journey. 5 So the people spoke against God and Moses: “Why have you brought us up from Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no food and no water, and we are disgusted with this miserable food.” [i.e., the manna]
The Bronze Serpent
6 Then the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people and they bit the people, so that many people of Israel died. 7 So the people came to Moses and said, “We have sinned, because we have spoken against the Lord and against you; intercede with the Lord, that He will remove the serpents from us.” And Moses interceded for the people. 8 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and put it on a flag pole; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, and looks at it, will live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze serpent and put it on the flag pole; and it came about, that if a serpent bit someone, and he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived.
So the brazen serpent on the pole was, as we say, a "type" of Christ, that is, a foreshadowing.
Some four or five hundred years later, the people of Judah were still corrupt and idolatrous, worshipping idols made by hand in groves on the hilltops. They also burned incense to the old brazen serpent, which the priests had kept all that time.
II Kings 18: referring to King Hezekiah —
4 He removed the high places and smashed the memorial stones to pieces, and cut down the Asherah [idols carved from trees]. He also crushed to pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the sons of Israel had been burning incense to it; and it was called Nehushtan [that is, a "thing of brass"]. 5 He trusted in the Lord, the God of Israel; and after him there was no one like him among all the kings of Judah, nor among those who came before him. 6 For he clung to the Lord; he did not desist from following Him, but kept His commandments, which the Lord had commanded Moses. 7 And the Lord was with him; wherever he went he was successful.
But the quote you mention must be seen in this wider context:
John 12:23 “But Jesus answered them by saying, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24 Truly, truly I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. 25 The one who loves his life loses it, and the one who hates his life in this world will keep it to eternal life. 26 If anyone serves Me, he must follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also; if anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him.
Now My soul has become troubled; and what am I to say? ‘Father, save Me from this hour’? But for this purpose I came to this hour. 28 Father, glorify Your name.” Then a voice came out of heaven: “I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.” 29 So the crowd who stood by and heard it were saying that it had thundered; others were saying, “An angel has spoken to Him!” 30 Jesus responded and said, “This voice has not come for My sake, but for yours. 31 Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. 32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.” 33 Now He was saying this to indicate what kind of death He was going to die.
That's a fair question -
the original is
κἀγὼ ἂν ὑψωθῶ ἐκ τῆς γῆς, πάντας ἑλκύσω πρὸς ἐμαυτόν.
ἑλκύσω (helkuso) is indeed a strong expression, used for dragging ships out of the water, oxen pulling plows.
But no single verse can be called upon to stand on its own. We can be confident that Jesus was not speaking Greek to those people. Almost certainly it would have been Aramaic, a close cousin of Hebrew, could be called a dialect maybe. So we don't know what exact shades of meaning there might have been.
In any case you have to remember the dozens of times and ways that He said, "Many are called, but few are chosen."
The best example is probably,
[13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Strait - like the Bering Strait, means a narrow, a tight squeeze. "Strict" is another form of the word.
So I'd say, the best way to interpret that is, all are drawn, but most will not surrender to the call, but are also drawn to earthly attractions, which will overpower the saving grace of God, and pull these many down to the Second Death.
In my first comment I quoted, "all that the Father hath given me shall come to me", so there is a sense of predestination, which is repeated in the book of the Revelation.
But nevertheless, EVERYONE has the opportunity, and will never be able to say to the Great Judge on That Day, "You never have me a chance", because He will then "replay the tape" to use a modern idiom, of the moment that they decided not to accept the offer, the price being deemed too high, refusing to turn away from this or that sin.
To die with Christ is serious business.
[13] When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
[14] And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
[15] He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
[16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
[17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
[18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
[19] And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Moreover, who is any man that thinks he can deny God the right to do whatever He will? God is by definition true and righteous altogether. His ways are past finding out.
If we listen with the ears of our flesh, we will hear our own frail wisdom.
But when we listen with the ears of our spirit, when we are attuned to His Spirit, we hear what is real and Eternal.
Matt.10
[37] He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me
As someone born Jewish who walked away while in college I am going through a similar realization about the ugliness that has surrounded “the chosen people”. When we see the way religion can be used for deception and power mongering, it’s rather striking. I’ve been learning about the Khazarian mafia and its roots in the Ashkenazic Jewish community that produced the Rothschilds, their central banks and all of the Zionists who were behind the Russian Revolution as well as financing both sides in every war and act of terror that is now so overwhelming. And to watch how Bibi one of their top modern henchmen made a deal with the devil himself Pfizer turns my stomach inside out.
https://geopolitics.co/2015/03/11/hidden-history-of-the-incredibly-evil-khazarian-mafia/
I learned the other night at a dinner with friends, about the history of some of this. Late to it. So much to process. Loaded and freighted with the usual guilt trips but as time permits, we must study deep ancient history if we are to grasp the first thing about the present.
https://www.redpilldocumentaries.com/fallofthecabal/ - Celia - This is a great series. The sequel goes into depth about how these evil monsters evolved. We are truly living in the Twilight Zone. I can see where Hollywood got material for their supervillains that we thought only existed in movies.
This site has links to Fall of the Cabal I + II and the Monopoly video, which says the owners of Vanguard and BlackRock are behind this:
https://www.stopworldcontrol.com/
Others blame the Windsors (British Monarchy) who are supposedly part of the Black Nobility:
https://hive.blog/gems/@francesleader/who-rules-the-world
Thank You Celia! God bless you and have a great weekend
Despite Catholic grade and high schools. I never heard of Bella Dodd until roughly 3 years ago. It is a true measure of insanity that her writing was and is not required reading from 1st grade on in these schools. (Whittaker Chambers would be another [more prolific] author to be studied EARLY. ) The Church - and I believe other religious institutions - have been targets of well-funded, systematic corruption going back at least 100 years. Dodd infiltrated 1100 Communist priests into the Church during FDR's era. In 2016, the number of priests in the US was around 37,000. She said she was well paid for her efforts by "Global financiers". Assemble the usual suspects.
I have to believe that Dodd was also instrumental in the formation of the National Lawyers Guild, established during the 1930s from the efforts of CommunismUSA and Communism International. Like Dodd said in the 1950s: they use nice sounding labels, like "Liberal", "Progressive" or "Democracy" to hide their real intentions, which we are blatantly seeing today. It was an organization of communist attorneys, judges, pols, paralegals, yadda yada yada. Today there are chapters in every state, but relatively few people have heard of them. They term themselves "Progressive", as in the Congressional Progressive Caucus. My belief is that primarily this organization and its allies have been responsible for the perversion and corruption established in our justice system over the past several decades.
FWIW - once they had control of the seminaries, only leftist students were admitted for study. They sought out those willing to admit to being homosexual.
All monotheistic systems are broken false religions
https://youtu.be/2QQuD62RxrU
Alphabet vs the goddess lecture, how humanity became domesticated