She uses the Spanish (and German) term "estado de derecho" which is literally "State of Right," but in proper English is "Rule of law."
Very confusing concept: clearly, the term State and the term Right contradict each other. The resulting confusion is partially responsible for the current legal and political chaos of many countries.
In Spain, the Constitution says literally "Spain is constituted as social and democratic state of right," a phrase so complicated that several exorcists of many different religions have failed to purify.
No one understands what the very open-ended term "social state" means.
No one can escape the confusion of the very disputed adjective "democratic."
No one agrees on what rights or "the law" is.
The mystical jungle of positive legislation.
The law should be plain, small, short, and understandable by everyone.
I realize I will make no friends here when I write this, but I am really taken aback at the word "persecution" to describe what is happening to Reiner Fuellmich.
Is Reiner being tortured? Being denied food and water? Injected with foreign substances?
Everyone who speaks out against official deep state narrative, as you well know, Celia, takes a risk.
At this point, after all the years of seeing what happens to journalists and activists that speak the truth, one has to know that if one is going to take on the cartel, one needs to be ready to fight and to expect anything.
I watched every single interview that Reiner and Vivienne and the committee held, and I learned a great deal.
I watched Reiner's interviews after he parted with Vivienne. I enjoyed them and I learned a great deal from them also.
So I have no ax to grind with Reiner, Vivienne or the committee. I appreciate their work.
However, and I have believed this since the whole situation exploded - at the very least, Reiner and Vivienne and Woflgang and the committee used extremely poor judgement when they used Committee donations for personal use - EVEN IF that personal use was to protect the funds from the government. Reiner and Vivienne each took a loan. That is personal use.
Anyone who has done any kind of work in this arena knows that you do not touch ANY funds for any reason.
You either set up a 501 non profit organization, or you just hire a completely independent 3rd party to handle all donations and finances.
I am incredulous that Reiner, a lawyer who specializes in fraud, and Vivienne, also a lawyer, would even consider touching those donations. Especially with what was at stake.
With what was at stake - the Health Freedom movement and all of the work they were doing - you would assume they would make sure that everything financial was above board, transparent, and unquestionable.
The donations could have been protected in a way that would not call into question anyone's integrity, and would not lead to just what we are witnessing now.
Was Vivienne "got to"? Maybe.
Was Reiner's arrest illegal? Perhaps.
Is the German judicial system corrupt? Of course.
Every single judicial system in the world is corrupt! Doesn't excuse what is happening by any means, but it does not surprise me at all that they are trying their best to disparage what the committee was trying to do in exposing the truth.
I have listened to Eric Coppolino's interview from last Feb with a German journalist who did a deep dive into this situation. There is more to the background of this story than meets the eye. The journalist is very even keel. He does not cast aspersions. He does not pronounce judgement. But he does ask an interesting question,
If Reiner had not been arrested - if he and Viveinne were still conducting interviews with their committee - would how they handled the donations be OK?
My answer is no.
So we can focus on how corrupt the German judicial system is. No question.
And it is deplorable that Reiner could not be with his mother without being handcuffed. That goes without saying.
But this situation did not happen out of the blue. Questionable judgment gave the cartel ammunition.
We are up against mighty might forces.
I think of innocent men, women and children being deprived of food, water, sanitation, a home:, and being bombed and shot at on a daily basis as persecuted.
"The donations could have been protected in a way that would not call into question anyone's integrity, and would not lead to just what we are witnessing now."
Really? Would not any conventional open disposition of the funds in an institutional account make them vulnerable to seizure by the state or bank under anti money laundering provisions, whoever happened to be holding them?
I would be very surprised if Reiner (and Viviane too) did not realise they were putting themselves at risk by possessing the funds personally, but they needed a way, and perhaps acted hurriedly, to put the funds out of the reach of the standard account seizure provisions.
They divided the funds between them: some was put into Reiner's house, some taken as a personal loan by Viviane, and some used to buy gold which was then hidden by lodging it with a private third party ("a friend").
In dealing with the funds this way they thwarted the state, but protected the interests of those they held the funds for in line with their duties as trustees, as (if I remember rightly) Reiner successfully argued in court; I say successfully because the court then apparently abandoned the breach of trust line of attack and instead claimed the loan agreements were a sham.
Reiner was not living in the world we once thought we lived in and sought to protect the donor/client interests as best he could in the one we are now in.
It looks to me as though Reiner would have been able to navigate the difficulties this way of the protecting the funds has caused had the court had the least integrity. As it is, the court has been reduced to avoiding all discussion of all issues and trying to prevent examination of any new witnesses. We can all see the prosecution has failed and all the authorities are left with is to exercise a flagrant abuse of power. In this sense Reiner's judgment is vindicated.
From the reports I have read and heard, Vivienne took a $100,000 loan. Reiner took a $700,000 loan which he said he would pay back upon the sale of his house.
There is also a question of donations being used to pay Reiner's law firm.
This is just not done.
There are legitimate ways to protect funds. Both Reiner and Vivienne as lawyers know this. Wodard and the other members should have known it too.
All I am saying is that it was poor judgement at best.
I believe there is more than meets the eye. On all sides.
Reiner may have opened himself up to accusations of fraud by taking possession of funds personally, but that does not mean he did not act legitimately. My impression is that the initial basis of the prosecution broke down and the court has since sought to bring the trial to a close without clarifying what the charges now are and without hearing the defence case, simply asserting Reiner's guilt.
If bank accounts are inherently vulnerable to arbitrary seizure, what other 'legitimate ways' might Reiner have used to protect the funds?
"You either set up a 501 non profit organization" - The 501 non-profit was not feasible due to German regulations regarding government policy (see above)
"Is Reiner being tortured?" - Solitary confinement is considered torture in the EU, especially for the sort of crime he's been indicted for
I get the impression that this whole fiasco is a massive attention-seeking soap opera created by the German secret services for distraction purposes.
The case will be won by Reiner Fuellmich and he will be feted as a hero by his team, thus ensuring the adoration of a deceived public for the next stage of his information gathering investigation on behalf of the globalists.
I totally doubt that he has spent even ONE night behind bars in ANY prison!
From day one, his appearance on social media was suspicious. He campaigned, fundraised and steered the Corona Committee holding up a 'carrot' - the possibility of a Nuremberg 2 trial, which he knew would never manifest. He and Fischer raked in millions from the public for legal costs. I did some research last February which you can read here:
I am shocked that you, Celia, have permitted yourself to be used for their publicity purposes and would warn you that Elsa may not be an innocent party. I remember watching her interview with Eric F Coppolino in which she was very nervous when he put her on the spot with his incisive questions.
I will continue to be a paying subscriber to your Substack because we all make mistakes and I know that you have been stretched over the coals enough during your long journalistic career.
I make this comment in good faith because I don't like to see you misused.
The evidence is in the words of the report that Celia shared. Reiner Fuellmich is claimed to be in solitary confinement - for a financial matter? It smacks of the same strangeness that we were fed about Julian Assange and that ended in a fizzle, didn’t it?
So many soap operas and lies being fed to the public to distract us from the totalitarian tiptoe being enforced from the UN and trickling down to our local streets!
The public face of the trial indicates abuse of process. Keeping Reiner in solitary is one such indication.
So your evidence that Reiner has not spent a night in prison is to claim that Reiner cannot really be being prosecuted because if he is it would mean we are seeing an abuse of process, and that cannot be.
I think a sighting of Reiner about town shopping with his wife would be evidence. Instead you offer convoluted reasoning relying on the assumption that, despite the evidence of those reporting the court case and related events, we simply cannot be seeing an actual abuse of process.
Your are very naïve Greta. I envy you that. You also misunderstood me. My speculation does not actually require any evidence, I was indulging you, out of politeness, and simply directing you to one source for my doubts. I am still free to speculate until that too becomes illegal. You obviously did not read my Substack article expressing my concerns about Fuellmich & Fischer, written two years ago and linked in my comment here.
You are free to speculate as much as you like, but without evidence to support them such speculations as "I totally doubt that he has spent even ONE night behind bars in ANY prison!" can only be regarded as malicious.
Instead of either standing up or withdrawing your damaging claims you gaslight me.
No darling. Gaslighting is when one tries to make someone think they are crazy. I think you are merely naïve, which is charming, even though your prose is accusatory and rude.
Read the first two paragraphs of my original comment above. If you do not have experience of authority and media deceptions of that type then I am sorry, unfortunately I do and my opinions are coloured by that experience. It is malicious to communicate in hatred. I communicate with love of the truth. It has offended you, that is all.
Frances, I think you are wrong on this case, as much as on the Poisoned Kiwi case. It's good check your impressions with the evidence. In the case of PK, the evidence was obviously against him. And that poor fellow has really gone through many crises. And his writing was too on the nose. You wouldn't allow anyone to accuse you of what he accused his victims of doing, and you would be rightfully angry at an accuser like that.
In the case of Fuellmich, this man has been punished beyond measure. If he committed any misdemeanor regarding money of the Corona committee, we see that an entire year of his life has been spent being ransomed by people who have mistreated him very badly. Have some compassion on the guy, will you? At least have some empathy on his friends? You wouldn't want no one you love to go through what he's going through, and you would be also right.
Well done mate. Think you’re properly on the money, with these out and out shills. Corona committees ?? Health freedom movements.?? It’s just so much bollocks. And quite shameful to boot. Great links and articles btw..!! All the best.
Celia Im worried theyre orchestrating all these violent attacks in the prison in order to cover up in advance the death of Reiner... are they going to have him killed? It's so worrying. We need to bring a writ of habeas corpus. We need to get him out on bail so he is safe. Elon Musk, could fund his bail.. Contact Steve Kirsch, Peter McCullough - high profile people who are fighting covid narratives and trying to maintain free speech maybe able to publicise this - we need the eyes of the world on this. I think the German authorities want to send a strong message to the world that it's dangerous to challenge the narrative, so publicising what has happened to him helps them in a way, but if we can protect him, save him, then it will be worth it and if the public can see how the justice system has been SO corrupted that its worse than Russia's Stalinist regime, maybe we can get the world to open their eyes generally to the unfolding dystopia... All is NOT ok.
I'm sharing a most excellent piece by Law Professor Augusto Zimmerman about the collapse of the German legal system in the pre WW2 era. There are many parallels to the Reiner.F story.
Natali's Spanish is very good.
She uses the Spanish (and German) term "estado de derecho" which is literally "State of Right," but in proper English is "Rule of law."
Very confusing concept: clearly, the term State and the term Right contradict each other. The resulting confusion is partially responsible for the current legal and political chaos of many countries.
Some good info here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechtsstaat
In Spain, the Constitution says literally "Spain is constituted as social and democratic state of right," a phrase so complicated that several exorcists of many different religions have failed to purify.
No one understands what the very open-ended term "social state" means.
No one can escape the confusion of the very disputed adjective "democratic."
No one agrees on what rights or "the law" is.
The mystical jungle of positive legislation.
The law should be plain, small, short, and understandable by everyone.
I realize I will make no friends here when I write this, but I am really taken aback at the word "persecution" to describe what is happening to Reiner Fuellmich.
Is Reiner being tortured? Being denied food and water? Injected with foreign substances?
Everyone who speaks out against official deep state narrative, as you well know, Celia, takes a risk.
At this point, after all the years of seeing what happens to journalists and activists that speak the truth, one has to know that if one is going to take on the cartel, one needs to be ready to fight and to expect anything.
I watched every single interview that Reiner and Vivienne and the committee held, and I learned a great deal.
I watched Reiner's interviews after he parted with Vivienne. I enjoyed them and I learned a great deal from them also.
So I have no ax to grind with Reiner, Vivienne or the committee. I appreciate their work.
However, and I have believed this since the whole situation exploded - at the very least, Reiner and Vivienne and Woflgang and the committee used extremely poor judgement when they used Committee donations for personal use - EVEN IF that personal use was to protect the funds from the government. Reiner and Vivienne each took a loan. That is personal use.
Anyone who has done any kind of work in this arena knows that you do not touch ANY funds for any reason.
You either set up a 501 non profit organization, or you just hire a completely independent 3rd party to handle all donations and finances.
I am incredulous that Reiner, a lawyer who specializes in fraud, and Vivienne, also a lawyer, would even consider touching those donations. Especially with what was at stake.
With what was at stake - the Health Freedom movement and all of the work they were doing - you would assume they would make sure that everything financial was above board, transparent, and unquestionable.
The donations could have been protected in a way that would not call into question anyone's integrity, and would not lead to just what we are witnessing now.
Was Vivienne "got to"? Maybe.
Was Reiner's arrest illegal? Perhaps.
Is the German judicial system corrupt? Of course.
Every single judicial system in the world is corrupt! Doesn't excuse what is happening by any means, but it does not surprise me at all that they are trying their best to disparage what the committee was trying to do in exposing the truth.
I have listened to Eric Coppolino's interview from last Feb with a German journalist who did a deep dive into this situation. There is more to the background of this story than meets the eye. The journalist is very even keel. He does not cast aspersions. He does not pronounce judgement. But he does ask an interesting question,
If Reiner had not been arrested - if he and Viveinne were still conducting interviews with their committee - would how they handled the donations be OK?
My answer is no.
So we can focus on how corrupt the German judicial system is. No question.
And it is deplorable that Reiner could not be with his mother without being handcuffed. That goes without saying.
But this situation did not happen out of the blue. Questionable judgment gave the cartel ammunition.
We are up against mighty might forces.
I think of innocent men, women and children being deprived of food, water, sanitation, a home:, and being bombed and shot at on a daily basis as persecuted.
That is just my opinion.
"The donations could have been protected in a way that would not call into question anyone's integrity, and would not lead to just what we are witnessing now."
Really? Would not any conventional open disposition of the funds in an institutional account make them vulnerable to seizure by the state or bank under anti money laundering provisions, whoever happened to be holding them?
I would be very surprised if Reiner (and Viviane too) did not realise they were putting themselves at risk by possessing the funds personally, but they needed a way, and perhaps acted hurriedly, to put the funds out of the reach of the standard account seizure provisions.
They divided the funds between them: some was put into Reiner's house, some taken as a personal loan by Viviane, and some used to buy gold which was then hidden by lodging it with a private third party ("a friend").
In dealing with the funds this way they thwarted the state, but protected the interests of those they held the funds for in line with their duties as trustees, as (if I remember rightly) Reiner successfully argued in court; I say successfully because the court then apparently abandoned the breach of trust line of attack and instead claimed the loan agreements were a sham.
Reiner was not living in the world we once thought we lived in and sought to protect the donor/client interests as best he could in the one we are now in.
It looks to me as though Reiner would have been able to navigate the difficulties this way of the protecting the funds has caused had the court had the least integrity. As it is, the court has been reduced to avoiding all discussion of all issues and trying to prevent examination of any new witnesses. We can all see the prosecution has failed and all the authorities are left with is to exercise a flagrant abuse of power. In this sense Reiner's judgment is vindicated.
Edit: Reiner discusses the gold in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaaJXLXDWA4
From the reports I have read and heard, Vivienne took a $100,000 loan. Reiner took a $700,000 loan which he said he would pay back upon the sale of his house.
There is also a question of donations being used to pay Reiner's law firm.
This is just not done.
There are legitimate ways to protect funds. Both Reiner and Vivienne as lawyers know this. Wodard and the other members should have known it too.
All I am saying is that it was poor judgement at best.
I believe there is more than meets the eye. On all sides.
Reiner may have opened himself up to accusations of fraud by taking possession of funds personally, but that does not mean he did not act legitimately. My impression is that the initial basis of the prosecution broke down and the court has since sought to bring the trial to a close without clarifying what the charges now are and without hearing the defence case, simply asserting Reiner's guilt.
If bank accounts are inherently vulnerable to arbitrary seizure, what other 'legitimate ways' might Reiner have used to protect the funds?
"You either set up a 501 non profit organization" - The 501 non-profit was not feasible due to German regulations regarding government policy (see above)
"Is Reiner being tortured?" - Solitary confinement is considered torture in the EU, especially for the sort of crime he's been indicted for
Astute analysis. thank you
wow. the White Rose. an exemplar. I kick myself for still not having designed and implemented a leaflet campaign. does the word guillotine stop me?
I get the impression that this whole fiasco is a massive attention-seeking soap opera created by the German secret services for distraction purposes.
The case will be won by Reiner Fuellmich and he will be feted as a hero by his team, thus ensuring the adoration of a deceived public for the next stage of his information gathering investigation on behalf of the globalists.
I totally doubt that he has spent even ONE night behind bars in ANY prison!
From day one, his appearance on social media was suspicious. He campaigned, fundraised and steered the Corona Committee holding up a 'carrot' - the possibility of a Nuremberg 2 trial, which he knew would never manifest. He and Fischer raked in millions from the public for legal costs. I did some research last February which you can read here:
https://francesleader.substack.com/p/fuellmich-fischer
I am shocked that you, Celia, have permitted yourself to be used for their publicity purposes and would warn you that Elsa may not be an innocent party. I remember watching her interview with Eric F Coppolino in which she was very nervous when he put her on the spot with his incisive questions.
I will continue to be a paying subscriber to your Substack because we all make mistakes and I know that you have been stretched over the coals enough during your long journalistic career.
I make this comment in good faith because I don't like to see you misused.
"I totally doubt that he has spent even ONE night behind bars in ANY prison!"
What evidence do you have for this speculation? It would torpedo Reiner as a beacon of the freedom cause if true and is clearly meant to damage him.
If you cannot provide any evidence for your statement what does that say about you?
The evidence is in the words of the report that Celia shared. Reiner Fuellmich is claimed to be in solitary confinement - for a financial matter? It smacks of the same strangeness that we were fed about Julian Assange and that ended in a fizzle, didn’t it?
So many soap operas and lies being fed to the public to distract us from the totalitarian tiptoe being enforced from the UN and trickling down to our local streets!
I agree, Frances.
I think we all would agree that no one here wants or likes to see injustice in any form.
No one wants to see someone locked up for no good reason.
God knows, there likely are many in US jails that are experiencing just that.
But I have questions and doubt also.
I could never wrap my head around the lost passports. They both lost their passports? The whole thing is just odd.
I don't think you are decreeing anything but your own thoughts, Frances. Same as me.
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
The public face of the trial indicates abuse of process. Keeping Reiner in solitary is one such indication.
So your evidence that Reiner has not spent a night in prison is to claim that Reiner cannot really be being prosecuted because if he is it would mean we are seeing an abuse of process, and that cannot be.
I think a sighting of Reiner about town shopping with his wife would be evidence. Instead you offer convoluted reasoning relying on the assumption that, despite the evidence of those reporting the court case and related events, we simply cannot be seeing an actual abuse of process.
Your are very naïve Greta. I envy you that. You also misunderstood me. My speculation does not actually require any evidence, I was indulging you, out of politeness, and simply directing you to one source for my doubts. I am still free to speculate until that too becomes illegal. You obviously did not read my Substack article expressing my concerns about Fuellmich & Fischer, written two years ago and linked in my comment here.
You are free to speculate as much as you like, but without evidence to support them such speculations as "I totally doubt that he has spent even ONE night behind bars in ANY prison!" can only be regarded as malicious.
Instead of either standing up or withdrawing your damaging claims you gaslight me.
I would argue that stating someone's opinion, instinct, belief, intuition is not decreeing.
I wondered the same thing about Reiner's lock up. With good reason. Because this kind of thing happens all the time.
I believe there is so much that we don't see and we don't know it is astounding.
No darling. Gaslighting is when one tries to make someone think they are crazy. I think you are merely naïve, which is charming, even though your prose is accusatory and rude.
Read the first two paragraphs of my original comment above. If you do not have experience of authority and media deceptions of that type then I am sorry, unfortunately I do and my opinions are coloured by that experience. It is malicious to communicate in hatred. I communicate with love of the truth. It has offended you, that is all.
Precisely
Do you mean this interview https://planetwavesfm.substack.com/p/why-is-reiner-fuellmich-on-trial ?
I missed that one. Gonna watch.
Frances, I think you are wrong on this case, as much as on the Poisoned Kiwi case. It's good check your impressions with the evidence. In the case of PK, the evidence was obviously against him. And that poor fellow has really gone through many crises. And his writing was too on the nose. You wouldn't allow anyone to accuse you of what he accused his victims of doing, and you would be rightfully angry at an accuser like that.
In the case of Fuellmich, this man has been punished beyond measure. If he committed any misdemeanor regarding money of the Corona committee, we see that an entire year of his life has been spent being ransomed by people who have mistreated him very badly. Have some compassion on the guy, will you? At least have some empathy on his friends? You wouldn't want no one you love to go through what he's going through, and you would be also right.
Thanks for letting me know your opinion but I stick to my analysis in both cases.
The Baileys should have investigated PK’s concerns.
Fuellmich + Fischer are both agents performing in a soap opera distraction.
Well done mate. Think you’re properly on the money, with these out and out shills. Corona committees ?? Health freedom movements.?? It’s just so much bollocks. And quite shameful to boot. Great links and articles btw..!! All the best.
Vivianne Fischer 🤬
I am also including this in today's blog.
I can imagine hearing one of the ladies saying "Unglaublich" as that is translated to "unbelievable" in the video.
most effective way to subvert a nation is to infiltrate the leadership then just a few with greatwealth can control it very effectively
We need to link it with what has happened to CJ Hopkins in Germany... this should be HUGE story!
Celia Im worried theyre orchestrating all these violent attacks in the prison in order to cover up in advance the death of Reiner... are they going to have him killed? It's so worrying. We need to bring a writ of habeas corpus. We need to get him out on bail so he is safe. Elon Musk, could fund his bail.. Contact Steve Kirsch, Peter McCullough - high profile people who are fighting covid narratives and trying to maintain free speech maybe able to publicise this - we need the eyes of the world on this. I think the German authorities want to send a strong message to the world that it's dangerous to challenge the narrative, so publicising what has happened to him helps them in a way, but if we can protect him, save him, then it will be worth it and if the public can see how the justice system has been SO corrupted that its worse than Russia's Stalinist regime, maybe we can get the world to open their eyes generally to the unfolding dystopia... All is NOT ok.
Interesting analysis of the collapse of the German legal system in WW2 era - written by law professor Augusto Zimmerman. History repeating.
https://quadrant.org.au/news-opinions/uncategorized/lessons-from-the-totalitarian-past/
"A mechanized state system presided over by criminals and drunks", here are the pictures: https://compote.slate.com/images/1c3a10ca-5c6e-4166-a183-70bc025b2ba8.jpeg?crop=4000%2C2667%2Cx0%2Cy0, https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.qcbp_XWa-IVrtuLBOCjvHQHaE8%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=15478c63786863db9373d83a1221fc244995e009d417f6f4774a6431337694ed&ipo=images
It is unbelievable. Disgustingly similar to the J6 trials.
“Never again” always happens again.
I'm sharing a most excellent piece by Law Professor Augusto Zimmerman about the collapse of the German legal system in the pre WW2 era. There are many parallels to the Reiner.F story.
https://quadrant.org.au/news-opinions/uncategorized/lessons-from-the-totalitarian-past/